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Post by sihath on Jan 19, 2011 20:04:30 GMT
Lets see how he gets on tonight, in charge of Leeds The same thought crossed my mind when I saw that. If Arsenal win will it all be down to Dean???
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Post by junior1 on Jan 19, 2011 20:13:56 GMT
Right, why was the Leeds player not booked? Same thing as rafeal for man utd same ref...
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Post by sihath on Jan 19, 2011 20:16:06 GMT
Right, why was the Leeds player not booked? Same thing as rafeal for man utd same ref... Perhaps Baldy wrote to him and pointed out the error and Mike Dean has learned from it
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Post by junior1 on Jan 19, 2011 20:17:17 GMT
Right, why was the Leeds player not booked? Same thing as rafeal for man utd same ref... Perhaps Baldy wrote to him and pointed out the error and Mike Dean has learned from it Proves what a shit ref and lover of the limelight he is
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Post by sihath on Jan 19, 2011 20:19:47 GMT
Perhaps Baldy wrote to him and pointed out the error and Mike Dean has learned from it Proves what a shit ref and lover of the limelight he is why?
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Post by junior1 on Jan 19, 2011 20:21:25 GMT
Proves what a shit ref and lover of the limelight he is why? The headlines were waiting for him by sending rds off.. This one, not so...
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Post by sihath on Jan 19, 2011 21:14:16 GMT
Some more comments on refs from Brian Clough.
Makes interesting reading.
Referees are doing their best
My players learned to understand that referees were doing their best, honestly and in keeping with whatever talent they had for the job. It developed into a kind of mutual respect for one another: my lot made life as comfortable as possible for match officials, and they were quick to appreciate it. I lost count of the number of referees who came to me both at Derby and Forest and said, 'I'd just like to express my thanks. I love matches involving your team. We never have any trouble with them.' pages 161 - 162 Your Reputation Precedes you
It worked to our benefit. A team of mine was the referees' best friend. It was only human nature that they should have a sympathetic outlook towards us. They wouldn't bend the rules or do us any particular favours but they knew that my players were not cheating or taking liberties. A mistimed tackle was exactly that and nothing more sinister. When a player of mine stayed down with an injury, no one was in the slightest doubt that he was genuinely hurt.
I made a point of going to talk to referees at their meetings. Inevitably, I was asked about the badly behaved sides and I told them, 'That problem could be eliminated overnight. If a team persistently has players in trouble, especially for dissent, arguing and cussing and swearing, they should fine the managers concerned a month's wages. If a manager was hit in his pocket, he'd be quick to get rid of the rotten apples in his barrel. He wouldn't stand for some yob or thug costing him his wages.' page 162 Over Scrutiny
Scrutiny is the referees' greatest enemy. Their performance is watched and recorded from just about every imaginable angle. Eventually, after as many re runs of the slow motion replay as it takes, the experts make up their minds and declare whether the referee was right or wrong. Would you like to have your every move at work recorded and analysed by some smart arsed expert who hasn't a clue what it's like to do your job in the first place? Of course you wouldn't and neither would I. The only thing that surprises me about modern refereeing is that so many people volunteer to do it.
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Post by unification on Jan 19, 2011 21:41:38 GMT
The headlines were waiting for him by sending rds off.. This one, not so... Whilst I'm not going to spring to his defence every time, (his officialling of the Chelsea-Man United match last season was incredibly poor. No wonder you Man U fans were upset) Dean has sent an Arsenal player off already this season (Koscielny vs Newcastle). He has refereed other big games this season like Chelsea vs Arsenal, Tottenham vs Chelsea and Villa vs Chelsea. Correct penalties and bookings called in all of those, yet his correct decision to send Rafael off is suddenly moaned at by Baldy and lapdog Junior? I've not seen much support from any others. Dougie has outlined why it was correct earlier on in this thread and had it been an Arsenal player I don't think we would have seen the same level of support that we've seen for the imaginary card-waving naivety of Rafael.
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Post by Agadoo on Jan 19, 2011 22:39:26 GMT
Dean had a good match tonight, I don't understand what the fuss is about. He's not pro Man Utd so we need more refs like him if you ask me
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Post by Boogaloo on Jan 20, 2011 9:20:37 GMT
Some more comments on refs from Brian Clough. Makes interesting reading. Referees are doing their best My players learned to understand that referees were doing their best, honestly and in keeping with whatever talent they had for the job. It developed into a kind of mutual respect for one another: my lot made life as comfortable as possible for match officials, and they were quick to appreciate it. I lost count of the number of referees who came to me both at Derby and Forest and said, 'I'd just like to express my thanks. I love matches involving your team. We never have any trouble with them.' pages 161 - 162 Your Reputation Precedes you It worked to our benefit. A team of mine was the referees' best friend. It was only human nature that they should have a sympathetic outlook towards us. They wouldn't bend the rules or do us any particular favours but they knew that my players were not cheating or taking liberties. A mistimed tackle was exactly that and nothing more sinister. When a player of mine stayed down with an injury, no one was in the slightest doubt that he was genuinely hurt. I made a point of going to talk to referees at their meetings. Inevitably, I was asked about the badly behaved sides and I told them, 'That problem could be eliminated overnight. If a team persistently has players in trouble, especially for dissent, arguing and cussing and swearing, they should fine the managers concerned a month's wages. If a manager was hit in his pocket, he'd be quick to get rid of the rotten apples in his barrel. He wouldn't stand for some yob or thug costing him his wages.' page 162 Over Scrutiny Scrutiny is the referees' greatest enemy. Their performance is watched and recorded from just about every imaginable angle. Eventually, after as many re runs of the slow motion replay as it takes, the experts make up their minds and declare whether the referee was right or wrong. Would you like to have your every move at work recorded and analysed by some smart arsed expert who hasn't a clue what it's like to do your job in the first place? Of course you wouldn't and neither would I. The only thing that surprises me about modern refereeing is that so many people volunteer to do it. That's a great article sihath. Shame they don't make managers like Cloughie any more. Probably the closest we have is Ian Holloway, who also recently came out in the press to lend his support to highlight the difficult job that referees do.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 20, 2011 9:42:33 GMT
I'm not saying go in gung ho and call referees all the names under the sun, that wouldnt be acceptable in any walk of life. That is outright verbal abuse But I see a big difference in that and the sort of instinctive reaction like 'Ffs ref, how the **** did you not see that, f****** awful decision'. To me, a referee has to be big enough to swallow that type of talk and get on with the game. In that example I've just given you've got three swear words in one sentence but the actual words are only being used to emphasise a point, you are not calling the referee a '******* ****' - that would be totally unacceptable but if I'm interpreting you and others correctly then you are saying knock out swearing in every form. To me that is too harsh and almost impossible to enforce. We may have to agree to disagree on this one. Wasn't your brother boss at City ? Did he ever swear from his dug out, either out loud or in the direction of the referee ? I wouldn't mind hearing his views on it as he's managed at a decent level where the stakes are a bit higher. That example (first paragraph) I can take, and should be a lecture. What I don't like is (for example) penalty given and 3/4 players in the ref's face. I would book the lot, minimum. If Player A is fouled, and player B decides to come in and give some abuse, Player B would be booked. Player A would have a bit more leniency. It's a fine line of course, but the players have it too much their own way at the moment. I certainly wouldn't take any comments from a player who had run 30 yards to make a point. Hmm, Justin and getting pulled up for bad language... ;D Might have happened once... (or twice...) ;D
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Denby
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by Denby on Jan 20, 2011 18:03:11 GMT
Fallen behind a bit here.
Baldy - going back your point about kids - I agree with you to an extent but still think that more should be done at the top of the game. I'm really talking about adult football and not kids football because that's what I'm involved in at the moment. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about cricket and rugby - you've put it more understandably but I still think that football reaps far more shame than cricket and rugby, put together.
Junior - sorry but it's hard to take you seriously. If you have questions about refereeing and referees in general I suggest you discover a bit of bottle, do a course, qualify, do some reffing, and if you still can't see the light through your manc goggles then put yourself in front of the top guys at the FA ans ask some questions, where you'll get some answers that will put you back in your place. Your forgetting that without a referee you don't have a game, and seem to think every referee should be banned or sacked. Well your wrong, and it's people like you that are partly responsible for the way football is today.
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Denby
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by Denby on Jan 20, 2011 18:10:19 GMT
I'm not saying go in gung ho and call referees all the names under the sun, that wouldnt be acceptable in any walk of life. That is outright verbal abuse But I see a big difference in that and the sort of instinctive reaction like 'Ffs ref, how the **** did you not see that, f****** awful decision'. To me, a referee has to be big enough to swallow that type of talk and get on with the game. In that example I've just given you've got three swear words in one sentence but the actual words are only being used to emphasise a point, you are not calling the referee a '******* ****' - that would be totally unacceptable but if I'm interpreting you and others correctly then you are saying knock out swearing in every form. To me that is too harsh and almost impossible to enforce. We may have to agree to disagree on this one. Wasn't your brother boss at City ? Did he ever swear from his dug out, either out loud or in the direction of the referee ? I wouldn't mind hearing his views on it as he's managed at a decent level where the stakes are a bit higher. Read more: yellows.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nationalinternational&action=post&thread=4712&page=8#ixzz1BbGDlxHP---------- I can accept a frustrated F off or two but to be honest referee's are expected to book for what you describe first up. If it was only one of those then it would be nothing - but all three, is a yellow for me. Swearing is human nature and I'm not saying cut it out completely, but it is at a stage where a lot of it is avoidable. Rooney called Dean a effing w*nker at the weekend - and although I doubt Dean will have heard it, the FA should be banning him for a match because that's where the line is crossed. Remember, if a referee were to every swear on a football pitch people would be calling for his head, even if out of frustration. Why not the same for players?
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Post by junior1 on Jan 20, 2011 18:11:32 GMT
Fallen behind a bit here. Baldy - going back your point about kids - I agree with you to an extent but still think that more should be done at the top of the game. I'm really talking about adult football and not kids football because that's what I'm involved in at the moment. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about cricket and rugby - you've put it more understandably but I still think that football reaps far more shame than cricket and rugby, put together. Junior - sorry but it's hard to take you seriously. If you have questions about refereeing and referees in general I suggest you discover a bit of bottle, do a course, qualify, do some reffing, and if you still can't see the light through your manc goggles then put yourself in front of the top guys at the FA ans ask some questions, where you'll get some answers that will put you back in your place. Your forgetting that without a referee you don't have a game, and seem to think every referee should be banned or sacked. Well your wrong, and it's people like you that are partly responsible for the way football is today. Denby, why did Dean not book the Leeds player last night? It was the same challenge as the one he gave RDS a yellow for the previous Sunday...
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Post by baldy on Jan 20, 2011 18:26:49 GMT
Fallen behind a bit here. Baldy - going back your point about kids - I agree with you to an extent but still think that more should be done at the top of the game. I'm really talking about adult football and not kids football because that's what I'm involved in at the moment. I think we'll have to agree to disagree about cricket and rugby - you've put it more understandably but I still think that football reaps far more shame than cricket and rugby, put together. Junior - sorry but it's hard to take you seriously. If you have questions about refereeing and referees in general I suggest you discover a bit of bottle, do a course, qualify, do some reffing, and if you still can't see the light through your manc goggles then put yourself in front of the top guys at the FA ans ask some questions, where you'll get some answers that will put you back in your place. Your forgetting that without a referee you don't have a game, and seem to think every referee should be banned or sacked. Well your wrong, and it's people like you that are partly responsible for the way football is today. Denby, why did Dean not book the Leeds player last night? It was the same challenge as the one he gave RDS a yellow for the previous Sunday... Dean is notorious for his glaring lack of consistency. Remember last season, that shirt tug by Vidic at Pompey that resulted in a penalty and a goal against Man U. It was a nothing incident and a week later MOTD showed a clip of Dean staring head on at three pairs of players tugging on shirts at a set piece -I think in a game involving Everton - and nothing was given. He could not NOT have seen it. Its that type of bewildering refereeing that lends to the theory that he has it in for Fergie who has never rated him. Whatever Ferguson thinks of him he should remain impartial and daft decisions like the Rafael sending off do nothing to dispel this thinking.
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Post by kenskeen on Jan 20, 2011 18:44:35 GMT
The sending off of Rafael has been stated by a number of referees to be completely correct. In baldyland (population 2 - Baldy and Fergie) it may be daft. In the country where referees make decisions according to the rules of the game it was absolutely correct.
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Denby
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by Denby on Jan 20, 2011 19:00:53 GMT
A few thoughts for you to consider Junior.
Rafael had been persisantly breaking the LOTG that game.
He may have had a worse viewing angle.
Leeds players arms weren't in the air before the contact.
If you make 10 people look at something for an instant then ask them what they saw the chances are they will all come up with something different.
If 22 people see a tackle in football they will by human nature all see something different. The referee though has the qualified opinion so his stands.
And finnally, consider this.
It's about consistency over the 90 minutes. It's not about last week, it's not about last month, it's about the 90 minutes.
I know for fact that the FA supported Mike Dean's decisions. The bottom line is your making the excuses of a frustrated Man Utd fan with a grudge agaisnt referee's. You can continue to be frustrated about Dean, but the FA decides who is a good ref and who isn't, not you, they decide what a good decision is, not you.
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