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Post by Boogaloo on Jan 17, 2011 13:16:20 GMT
Defensive display - agree. It's why Man Yoo are top of the pile this time around. Ferdinand has been outstanding this season. However, you've failed to address Boogaloo's point regarding 8 draws out of 10 away from Old Trafford. If you look at away games, things read: Man United - 14 points out of a possible 30 Man City - 21 points out of a possible 33 Arsenal - 24 points out of a possible 36 Manchester United's away form is only as good as Tottenham's. Old Trafford remains the fortress, but if Man United could win away from home then they would be strolling the league. You were only saying yourself that two wins and a defeat is better than a win and two draws. It's about time Man United started showing that. Win at home, draw away, is probably outdated thinking nowadays but its not far short of what is required and Man U remain bang on course. They are up on that formula I've just given in that they have only messed up in one home game but have picked up two wins on the road. If they keep going at their current rate then they will win the title, simple as that. Yes, they could be making it easier for themselves by picking up a few more on the road but its all looking rosey and having watched them yesterday I really think they can now go unbeaten. They've kept Tottenham (twice), Arsenal and City to about five half chances - that is impressive. You still have to visit Stamford Bridge, Anfield and of course, The Emirates. They aren't good enough to go unbeaten this season. I reckon they could go unbeaten at Old Trafford, but away from home - no chance.
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Post by kenskeen on Jan 18, 2011 6:33:05 GMT
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Post by baldy on Jan 18, 2011 8:04:48 GMT
How pompous is Poll. Dean is his best mate in football so the article is hardly surprising. If you are going to flash a card for every swear word, or more relevant, every slight show of daring to question the decision then fine do it. You cant have varying grades of swearing or dissent. What are we going to do 'Yellow for the F word', 'Red for the C word' and so on. Referees need to make their mind up and EVERY single one needs to stik to it. A solitary swear word, or a sole questioning of a decision needs to be an immediate yellow and if repeated then off - thats how I interpret Polls idealistic little world. It will reduce football to an absolute farce but there we go.
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Post by sihath on Jan 18, 2011 8:12:21 GMT
How pompous is Poll. Dean is his best mate in football so the article is hardly surprising. If you are going to flash a card for every swear word, or more relevant, every slight show of daring to question the decision then fine do it. You cant have varying grades of swearing or dissent. What are we going to do 'Yellow for the F word', 'Red for the C word' and so on. Referees need to make their mind up and EVERY single one needs to stik to it. A solitary swear word, or a sole questioning of a decision needs to be an immediate yellow and if repeated then off - thats how I interpret Polls idealistic little world. It will reduce football to an absolute farce but there we go. The farce is that players are getting away with it. The laws of the game say dissent is punishable. Refs aren't enforcing the laws of the game properly and players are getting away with abuse in every single game. The "Respect" campaign is a joke. The FA should say "From this weekend we will be enforcing the rules on dissent and swearing." You have been warned. Perhaps Baldy you could explain why players should be allowed to abuse refs, linesmen and fourth officials with impunity? Rugby players wouldn't get away with it, nor would any other sport in the world.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 18, 2011 8:55:02 GMT
The farce is that players are getting away with it. The laws of the game say dissent is punishable. Refs aren't enforcing the laws of the game properly and players are getting away with abuse in every single game. The "Respect" campaign is a joke. The FA should say "From this weekend we will be enforcing the rules on dissent and swearing." You have been warned. Perhaps Baldy you could explain why players should be allowed to abuse refs, linesmen and fourth officials with impunity? Rugby players wouldn't get away with it, nor would any other sport in the world. Absolutely spot on. And the sad thing about it is that if you have ever coached kids, even the 8 year old groups have some who will argue with the ref, and a lot of that is because of what they see on Sky. I don't believe for a second that if the refs drew a line in the sand and said 'Any swearing at the refs or linesmen, automatic card' that games will end 8-a-side. There would be a few casualties, but I think it is worth doing.
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Post by baldy on Jan 18, 2011 9:21:55 GMT
How pompous is Poll. Dean is his best mate in football so the article is hardly surprising. If you are going to flash a card for every swear word, or more relevant, every slight show of daring to question the decision then fine do it. You cant have varying grades of swearing or dissent. What are we going to do 'Yellow for the F word', 'Red for the C word' and so on. Referees need to make their mind up and EVERY single one needs to stik to it. A solitary swear word, or a sole questioning of a decision needs to be an immediate yellow and if repeated then off - thats how I interpret Polls idealistic little world. It will reduce football to an absolute farce but there we go. The farce is that players are getting away with it. The laws of the game say dissent is punishable. Refs aren't enforcing the laws of the game properly and players are getting away with abuse in every single game. The "Respect" campaign is a joke. The FA should say "From this weekend we will be enforcing the rules on dissent and swearing." You have been warned. Perhaps Baldy you could explain why players should be allowed to abuse refs, linesmen and fourth officials with impunity? Rugby players wouldn't get away with it, nor would any other sport in the world. And there is a lot that goes on in Rugby that if it happened on a football field the whole world would be up in arms. What about that eye gouging and the amount of stamping in Rugby ? There is absolutely nothiong in the Rugby laws that allow a lot of what goes on. To suggest Rugby is a game that we should maybe try and copy is bonkers in the extreme. They are as sly an kniving as footballers, if not a lot worse. Yes, they dont argue back or swear. Wow ! Big deal, just gouge an eye socket or leave your boot print on someones chest instead. What is wrong with swearing in the heat of the battle ? Its a working class game in the main and working class lads are not generally the most eloquent. Stick a meaty challenge on to that limited vocabulary and swearing is a perfectley natural reaction. I'd rather more effort was put in by referees to referee a game correctly than channeling energy into pointless charges just because some naughty footballer says 'Did you see that ******* challenge'. It is a perfectley natural reaction.
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Post by Pogue Mahone on Jan 18, 2011 9:28:03 GMT
Yes, but gouging and stamping result in bans ranging from 6 weeks to a year depend on intent and damage done. If you are caught, same as football, you are punished but to a degree where it actually means something.
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Post by baldy on Jan 18, 2011 9:36:17 GMT
Yes, but gouging and stamping result in bans ranging from 6 weeks to a year depend on intent and damage done. If you are caught, same as football, you are punished but to a degree where it actually means something. I guarantee you that rugby players get away with far more than footballers. OK, the one who get punished serve a decent sentence but so they should. Whereas footballers will make the odd rash, over the top, challenges rugby players are committing misdemeanours akin to actual assault and it happens regularly. The difference is rugby players dont squeal as much when they are the victim of such foul play but that does make it right ?
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Post by Boogaloo on Jan 18, 2011 9:52:51 GMT
What is wrong with swearing in the heat of the battle ? Its a working class game in the main and working class lads are not generally the most eloquent. Depends how you are using it. If you shank a shot into row Z and the ref hears you muttering "B*llocks" under your breath - that's only natural, and any card would be extremely harsh. But when you get Rooney being blown for offside, and then he turns round and shouts "F*ck Off!" to the ref, he should be sent down the tunnel for that, but all to often the refs are too frightened to send off the 'big' stars like Rooney, Gerrard and Terry. As for the 'working class' argument that is a load of rubbish. The Army has a lot of youngsters from working class backgrounds who aren't necessarily the most eloquent either, but you wouldn't catch them telling their Captain to "F*ck off", and if they did they certainly wouldn't do it again! In fact I would guess that in pretty much every line of work, if you tell your boss to "F*ck off" you would be out the door before your arse hits the ground.
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Post by Sheik Djibouti on Jan 18, 2011 10:38:12 GMT
Yes, but gouging and stamping result in bans ranging from 6 weeks to a year depend on intent and damage done. If you are caught, same as football, you are punished but to a degree where it actually means something. I guarantee you that rugby players get away with far more than footballers. OK, the one who get punished serve a decent sentence but so they should. Whereas footballers will make the odd rash, over the top, challenges rugby players are committing misdemeanours akin to actual assault and it happens regularly. The difference is rugby players dont squeal as much when they are the victim of such foul play but that does make it right ? Rubbish If the ref in rugby does not see the offence at the time then players can be cited by the opposition afterwards and disciplinary action can still be taken. If a players suffers an eye gouge or a stamping/raking, the evidence is there and all they need do is look back at the video evidence to see who should be cited if the ref doesn't pick it up at the time. At the top levels, all matches are videoed and that can be and often is used as evidence.
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Post by sihath on Jan 18, 2011 12:17:33 GMT
The farce is that players are getting away with it. The laws of the game say dissent is punishable. Refs aren't enforcing the laws of the game properly and players are getting away with abuse in every single game. The "Respect" campaign is a joke. The FA should say "From this weekend we will be enforcing the rules on dissent and swearing." You have been warned. Perhaps Baldy you could explain why players should be allowed to abuse refs, linesmen and fourth officials with impunity? Rugby players wouldn't get away with it, nor would any other sport in the world. And there is a lot that goes on in Rugby that if it happened on a football field the whole world would be up in arms. What about that eye gouging and the amount of stamping in Rugby ? There is absolutely nothiong in the Rugby laws that allow a lot of what goes on. To suggest Rugby is a game that we should maybe try and copy is bonkers in the extreme. They are as sly an kniving as footballers, if not a lot worse. Yes, they dont argue back or swear. Wow ! Big deal, just gouge an eye socket or leave your boot print on someones chest instead. Gouging is very rare in rugby. To imply that it happens as often as footballers swearing is ridiculous. Rooney famously swore 20 odd times in 45 minutes at Graham Poll. I would be surprised if there were 20 gouging incidents a season in Rugby. Get it in perspective! And when it does happen, video evidence is used and the offenders are given lengthy bans. What is wrong with swearing in the heat of the battle ? Its a working class game in the main and working class lads are not generally the most eloquent. Stick a meaty challenge on to that limited vocabulary and swearing is a perfectley natural reaction. Footballers, working class! They earn more in a few days than most working class people earn in a year. You are saying that working class people are thick and don't know how to behave and have to swear every time something goes against them. You telling me that Phil Vickery, who grew up and worked on a farm in Cornwall isn't working class? He is and he knows how to conduct himself on a sporting pitch.I'd rather more effort was put in by referees to referee a game correctly than channeling energy into pointless charges just because some naughty footballer says 'Did you see that ******* challenge'. How much easier would that be if players didn't surround them when they felt hard done by.
You mentioned in a previous post you have a son. I hope that something is done about the abuse towards referees. 7,000 refs a year leave the game. If they aren't given a little bit of respect/protection/support then when he's old enough to play organised football there won't be any referees left.It is a perfectley natural reaction.
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Post by Boogaloo on Jan 18, 2011 12:54:58 GMT
Baldy,
If Mike Dean told Wayne Rooney to "F*ck Off" I presume you would respect him for saying that? And if in the post match interview, he branded Alex Ferguson as a "Bad sportsman, with a bad attitude", and then laid into Rooney by saying that "He is the most over-rated striker I know" I guess you would be perfectly happy with that would you?
Of course you wouldn't. Referees are expected to conduct themselves in a professional manner, therefore so should boorish idiots like Wayne Rooney.
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Post by junior1 on Jan 18, 2011 12:58:30 GMT
Baldy, If Mike Dean told Wayne Rooney to "F*ck Off" I presume you would respect him for saying that? And if in the post match interview, he branded Alex Ferguson as a "Bad sportsman, with a bad attitude", and then laid into Rooney by saying that "He is the most over-rated striker I know" I guess you would be perfectly happy with that would you? Of course you wouldn't. Referees are expected to conduct themselves in a professional manner, therefore so should boorish idiots like Wayne Rooney. And John Terry and Steven Gerrard...
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Post by sihath on Jan 18, 2011 13:20:27 GMT
Would anyone be happy for their kids to swear and scream at refs?
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Post by baldy on Jan 18, 2011 13:28:44 GMT
I guarantee you that rugby players get away with far more than footballers. OK, the one who get punished serve a decent sentence but so they should. Whereas footballers will make the odd rash, over the top, challenges rugby players are committing misdemeanours akin to actual assault and it happens regularly. The difference is rugby players dont squeal as much when they are the victim of such foul play but that does make it right ? Rubbish If the ref in rugby does not see the offence at the time then players can be cited by the opposition afterwards and disciplinary action can still be taken. If a players suffers an eye gouge or a stamping/raking, the evidence is there and all they need do is look back at the video evidence to see who should be cited if the ref doesn't pick it up at the time. At the top levels, all matches are videoed and that can be and often is used as evidence. What a load of nonsense. My step dad - played rugby union for England u23's and 15 years for Northampton back in 50's and 60's - cringes at the way rugby has gone and nowadays compares the game unfavourably to football saying that the integrity in a game he once lived for has completely gone. I'd say he's got a better understanding of the game than you and he's 75 with failing eyesight. If I've interpreted your tone correctly then I'm guessing you are implying that todays rugby players somehow are more honest than a modern day footballer - absolute tosh. They are a far worse example for a professional sportsman.
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Post by baldy on Jan 18, 2011 13:32:40 GMT
Would anyone be happy for their kids to swear and scream at refs? Not until they're at an age whereby the odd expletive in the heat of the battle would be considered OK (15/16) but, likewise, I'd also like to think that they wont con the referee by gouging an opponents eye or raking a stud down his chest. Swearing is in no way as bad as some of the sheer brutality that goes with a game of rugby. Nothing like.
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Post by amarillo on Jan 18, 2011 13:59:29 GMT
The farce is that players are getting away with it. The laws of the game say dissent is punishable. Refs aren't enforcing the laws of the game properly and players are getting away with abuse in every single game. The "Respect" campaign is a joke. The FA should say "From this weekend we will be enforcing the rules on dissent and swearing." You have been warned. Perhaps Baldy you could explain why players should be allowed to abuse refs, linesmen and fourth officials with impunity? Rugby players wouldn't get away with it, nor would any other sport in the world. Spot on.
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Post by Agadoo on Jan 18, 2011 14:00:10 GMT
Baldy, If Mike Dean told Wayne Rooney to "F*ck Off" I presume you would respect him for saying that? And if in the post match interview, he branded Alex Ferguson as a "Bad sportsman, with a bad attitude", and then laid into Rooney by saying that "He is the most over-rated striker I know" I guess you would be perfectly happy with that would you? Of course you wouldn't. Referees are expected to conduct themselves in a professional manner, therefore so should boorish idiots like Wayne Rooney. We could forgive him for that because he'd be bang on the money. I think we saw the same frustrated Rooney as was at the World Cup, effing, blinding and boiling over as the belief in his own hype ebbs away
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Post by sihath on Jan 18, 2011 14:10:53 GMT
Would anyone be happy for their kids to swear and scream at refs? Not until they're at an age whereby the odd expletive in the heat of the battle would be considered OK (15/16) but, likewise, I'd also like to think that they wont con the referee by gouging an opponents eye or raking a stud down his chest. Swearing is in no way as bad as some of the sheer brutality that goes with a game of rugby. Nothing like. Sad that you would be happy for a 15 year old to scream and swear at a referee. When I used to play football and hockey over the same weekends many years ago, the difference in standards of respect towards officials was massive. Baldy, perhaps you ought to have a go at refereeing Sunday morning football. See if it might change your mind, or at least see where I am coming from. When you made an honest mistake (not that you would of course) to then be surrounded by screaming swearing players.
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Post by baldy on Jan 18, 2011 14:28:58 GMT
Not until they're at an age whereby the odd expletive in the heat of the battle would be considered OK (15/16) but, likewise, I'd also like to think that they wont con the referee by gouging an opponents eye or raking a stud down his chest. Swearing is in no way as bad as some of the sheer brutality that goes with a game of rugby. Nothing like. Sad that you would be happy for a 15 year old to scream and swear at a referee. When I used to play football and hockey over the same weekends many years ago, the difference in standards of respect towards officials was massive. Baldy, perhaps you ought to have a go at refereeing Sunday morning football. See if it might change your mind, or at least see where I am coming from. When you made an honest mistake (not that you would of course) to then be surrounded by screaming swearing players. Nice twisting of words. Where did I say I would be 'happy' for a 15 year old to 'swear and scream' ? I said at 15 or 16 the 'odd' expletive would be considered OK. The bit of the flow that I'm going against is the unfair comparison of football against rugby or even cricket. John Arlott and Brian Johnstone would be turning in the graves right now if they could see the way that gentlemanly, middle England sport of cricket has gone. Top flight cricketers swear, abuse officials and display acts of cheating just as they do in cricket. Football is the most honest sport of the three main ones in this country and if the only real downside is some industrial language compared to fixing matches and thuggery then I will take that. Wayne Rooney might swell the coffers in the swear box, ts all in the passion of the game but he upholds the integrity of the sport itself.
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