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Post by Marked Ox on Aug 4, 2010 15:57:11 GMT
Is it genuine fact confirmed by the club or independent media, or a forum claim which has become a forum 'fact' that this loan was used to to cover a cash shortfall in February and March or that some of the £400k loan was even accessed in Feb/Mar? Is it fact there was even a cash shortfall in February and March? Genuine questions as I haven't seen anything other than forum talk.
To Paul Ayres:
Do you know for a fact it is a £5m loan rather than money from his own pocket? If so, how, as you are asking for honesty from others? Most people use loans/mortgages to buy property, why does it have to be so different for IL?
Maybe new investors would come in as partners as IL has already funded loans of £3m, that he isn't charging interest on (hence losing cash effectively), and will also put up a further £5m (loan or his own cash).
Just maybe, the other parties didn't want the bids to become public as we (the supporters as a whole) didn't hear anything about them until IL mentioned them at the Fans Forum. Also, just because a bid has been made, it doesn't mean the grass is greener on the other side.
Paul, your final comment is utterly ridiculous.
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Post by paulayres on Aug 4, 2010 16:46:17 GMT
Is it genuine fact confirmed by the club or independent media, or a forum claim which has become a forum 'fact' that this loan was used to to cover a cash shortfall in February and March or that some of the £400k loan was even accessed in Feb/Mar? Is it fact there was even a cash shortfall in February and March? Genuine questions as I haven't seen anything other than forum talk. To Paul Ayres: Do you know for a fact it is a £5m loan rather than money from his own pocket? If so, how, as you are asking for honesty from others? Most people use loans/mortgages to buy property, why does it have to be so different for IL? Maybe new investors would come in as partners as IL has already funded loans of £3m, that he isn't charging interest on (hence losing cash effectively), and will also put up a further £5m (loan or his own cash). Just maybe, the other parties didn't want the bids to become public as we (the supporters as a whole) didn't hear anything about them until IL mentioned them at the Fans Forum. Also, just because a bid has been made, it doesn't mean the grass is greener on the other side. Paul, your final comment is utterly ridiculous. I disagree. The final comment is in fact true. The reason for promotion sits with Chris Wilder and the fan who financed the Constable deal. IL has not put any money into the club for 18 months if this site is to be believed. By his own admission he will not finance the club anymore. The club is being financed by supporters who have invested large sums of money to ensure we had a great chance to get back into the FL. If it was left to IL then Chris Wilder would have had no real chance. All I want to know is how much has been offered to IL to buy the club and why if he is no longer prepared to support the club financially he is not open to reasonable offers. Chris Wilder is a young up and coming manager and if we are in the playoffs in January he could well be head hunted by a club/chairman who is prepared to invest for a final promotion push, rather than sitting back whilst the club has to borrow money from fans to try to get the club where it rightly belongs.
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tcp
New Member
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Post by tcp on Aug 4, 2010 16:56:36 GMT
I find it bizarre that people expect someone to fund the club. I would much prefer the club to be well run off the pitch and be able to finance itself. External investment may be necessary to fund the stadium purchase but I certainly wouldn't begrudge any investor getting their money back.
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Post by Londonroader on Aug 4, 2010 19:11:38 GMT
Where would the club be Today if we never got promotion last season, there almost certainly would have been no glossy PR fans forum, and the current owner might have different thoughts than he has Today, about selling the club.
With regard to the £3m dept and charging no interest, did the no interest on the dept start when he decided to stop funding the club, and it would be a bit rich charging interest on the mistakes he made while running up the dept.
What is IL role in the club now? as he doesn't put any money in the club now, and as owner of OUFC what is his current use for us, he is getting his dept paid back.
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Post by slappy on Aug 4, 2010 19:38:12 GMT
Good questions LR, particularly what would have happened if we had not been promoted. Thank **** we didn't have to face that.
I very much doubt the club could have convinced the fans for a 5th season that it was worth renewing and coming to match days again.
Which would have made huge cost cuts essential.
So there were buyers in the background... Would these have bought WPL's shares in OUFC, repaid its debt, bought the ground, and invested for the future, knowing we faced another year in BSBP?
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Post by oufc1975 on Aug 4, 2010 19:45:43 GMT
Interesting views on here, great topic. Absolute facts are: 1) Money was loaned to ensure players wages met in March/April time. 2) Money also received for Constable deal and Batt plus more. 3) IL unwilling to fund these things as he is unwilling to invest further! (understandle after being hit for £3 million, cannot expect him to do more surely! 4) Bear in mind the passion to buy the club was Nick Merrys and Jim Smith not Ian Lenegans.
From the detail I am aware of the potential purchasers have a view that we would not have a club without Ian Lenegan, he has been left owning the club which was not the initial plan and despite that he has invested £3 million into the club and has said enough is enough which is fair enough. Since then his first love Wigan has become available and he has rightly invested his funds there as we all would with Oxford if we could.
They are seaon ticket holders for years go to around 15 away games a year and Oxford is their first passion.. They are successful business people who have realised some assets in the last couple of years and agreed to help the club as they were told without their investment the club would not be in a position to do certain things and no one else would help. (this is the bit that really worries me). They do not wish the limelight and want to continue to support the club as best they can but feel that they have done enough at this stage, if the club would like their help to buy stadium and invest in club they are open to suggestions. They are great people, Oxford fans, successful people and willing to invest in the club if that is what Ian Lenegan wants to make them as successful as possible. They are not glory hounds, just true fans who would be happy to try and help take the club forward. If Ian Lenegan wants to sell they will be in the mix but I think the figures quoted are unrealistic but not sure as they would never discuss this as are very discreet people. Value to me is £3 million is and the vibe is Ian will want a lot more than this. I also know one of them has read this thread and feels it unfair on Ian who he feels has ultimately done far more than is reasonable to expect and that its all irrelevant if Ian wont sell.
I think personally there looks like room for a deal, even a joint one and that it would be great for the club in the long term! Ian Lenegan involved with passionate succesful fans who will inject funds into the club sounds like a recipe for success to me with KT and CW how exciting!
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Post by oufc1975 on Aug 4, 2010 19:47:50 GMT
By the way what a interesting thread well done John Lennon!!
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Post by Eric Read on Aug 4, 2010 19:52:10 GMT
I believe that they would, Slappy.
The timing has nothing to do with the Club's League status, but everything to do with the prospective purchasers financial situation I believe.
Indeed they know that if the club had not gone up the asking price would have been lower!
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Post by slappy on Aug 4, 2010 19:51:26 GMT
I disagree. The final comment is in fact true. The reason for promotion sits with Chris Wilder and the fan who financed the Constable deal. IL has not put any money into the club for 18 months if this site is to be believed. By his own admission he will not finance the club anymore. The club is being financed by supporters who have invested large sums of money to ensure we had a great chance to get back into the FL. If it was left to IL then Chris Wilder would have had no real chance. All I want to know is how much has been offered to IL to buy the club and why if he is no longer prepared to support the club financially he is not open to reasonable offers. Chris Wilder is a young up and coming manager and if we are in the playoffs in January he could well be head hunted by a club/chairman who is prepared to invest for a final promotion push, rather than sitting back whilst the club has to borrow money from fans to try to get the club where it rightly belongs. Your thoughts are getting rambling It was well gossiped at the time that a supporter had bank rolled the Constable transfer. So what? Wilder has run good teams on much lower payrolls and much smaller squads. If someone offers him/ the club funding for Beano for a year, why not take them up? The club could have shut the youth development at end of 2008/09 and freed up funding. You talk about these Fans 'investing' in the club. But it seems they are loans and not donations. If they had given the 100K or 400K or whatever with no recourse then fair enough. But it seems they are classed as long term loans, and the club is planning to repay them (perhaps 1/2 next season). (No different to WPL's investment / loans, but I think the point stands).
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Post by slappy on Aug 4, 2010 20:01:59 GMT
ER, that is an intriguing comment, and I wonder where it may take the club over the next decade.
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Post by Eric Read on Aug 4, 2010 20:02:40 GMT
oufc1975 posted while I was composing mine, but his post really re-enforces what I was saying. First and foremost they are fans.
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Post by Londonroader on Aug 4, 2010 20:07:59 GMT
I believe that they would, Slappy. The timing has nothing to do with the Club's League status, but everything to do with the prospective purchasers financial situation I believe. Indeed they know that if the club had not gone up the asking price would have been lower! So if we were still in the BSP the cost of buying the club would have been lower! and we got promotion the price rises to any prospective buyer. So IL even though has has contributed no more money for the past approx 18 months, has increased the price of buying the club without putting a penny more in, but the promotion was on the back of our generous "fan" who kept the club afloat as IL sat watching.
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Post by Eric Read on Aug 4, 2010 20:16:11 GMT
Yep, that's one way of looking at it mate!
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Post by slappy on Aug 4, 2010 20:18:51 GMT
oufc1975 posted while I was composing mine, but his post really re-enforces what I was saying. First and foremost they are fans. So was Nick Merry. Where did that get us? I don't want to be overly negative about these Fans whom I know nothing about; Nor overly positive about Lenagan, under whose stewardship (don't forget KT was a director all along too) the club got into huge debt under Merry and then not bail it out. I'd always assumed that if the club got into debt, no-one would be stupid enough to be that debtor except Lenagan - but it happened to be HMRC, Kassam, bank overdrafts etc. So if now these Fans have sold their business, are they really now sat on a big fat lump of cash, of which they can splurge £15MM on club + stadium, and be happy with that? Or is some in shares, or in trust for children? What if some financial emergency comes along? Or they get converted to Scientologists and want to give all their assets away?
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Post by Londonroader on Aug 4, 2010 20:26:11 GMT
oufc1975 posted while I was composing mine, but his post really re-enforces what I was saying. First and foremost they are fans. So was Nick Merry. Where did that get us? I don't want to be overly negative about these Fans whom I know nothing about; Nor overly positive about Lenagan, under whose stewardship (don't forget KT was a director all along too) the club got into huge debt under Merry and then not bail it out. I'd always assumed that if the club got into debt, no-one would be stupid enough to be that debtor except Lenagan - but it happened to be HMRC, Kassam, bank overdrafts etc. So if now these Fans have sold their business, are they really now sat on a big fat lump of cash, of which they can splurge £15MM on club + stadium, and be happy with that? Or is some in shares, or in trust for children? What if some financial emergency comes along? Or they get converted to Scientologists and want to give all their assets away? Come on we are Oxford fans, and there has always got to be a little bit of hope, we are in a good place lets hope we can be in a better place in future.
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Post by Oxford Yankee on Aug 4, 2010 20:31:25 GMT
IL did however put his money where his mouth was 4 years ago but that doesn't suit anyone now.
With the greatest respect to Eric and OUFC 1975 people should reserve judgement on a change of ownership until one presents itself in a more certain way than on a fans forum.
Interesting times may lie ahead but lets not turn on the person who actually did step in and deliver us from the greed of FK. An OUFC fan to match the passion that gets displayed on this board IL is not but lets not forget that he has put his own money on the line.
The fans who have recently helped out deserve enormous credit but if they do not seek the limelight (as implied by OUFC 1975) then they should not enter into club ownership game. All they need to do is look through this thread to see many fans demanding to know every detail of who owes what to whom and almost demand a say in how much of a return an owner can expect.
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Post by oufc1975 on Aug 4, 2010 20:39:51 GMT
That is a massive concern of theirs Yankee and may stop the involvement! Another good point is that IL has had his asset increased in value by promotion to which other people have contributed and not benefitted from. Also they have not received their money back which the club promised to have back months ago and the club have had to re-negotiate the terms - that is concerning. The people concerned have plenty of investments continually making money so funding is not a concern as I understand it to cover another point.
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Post by Eric Read on Aug 4, 2010 20:42:52 GMT
IL did however put his money where his mouth was 4 years ago but that doesn't suit anyone now. With the greatest respect to Eric and OUFC 1975 people should reserve judgement on a change of ownership until one presents itself in a more certain way than on a fans forum. Interesting times may lie ahead but lets not turn on the person who actually did step in and deliver us from the greed of FK. An OUFC fan to match the passion that gets displayed on this board IL is not but lets not forget that he has put his own money on the line. The fans who have recently helped out deserve enormous credit but if they do not seek the limelight (as implied by OUFC 1975) then they should not enter into club ownership game. All they need to do is look through this thread to see many fans demanding to know every detail of who owes what to whom and almost demand a say in how much of a return an owner can expect. This messageboard is not where I heard about this, with all due respect.
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Post by Oxford Yankee on Aug 4, 2010 20:46:43 GMT
I didn't imply that you did Eric. But bar you and OUFC 1975 the rest of us did/are and hence its hard for me to judge the accuracy of any information that you have been given.
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Post by Eric Read on Aug 4, 2010 21:00:39 GMT
I didn't imply that you did Eric. But bar you and OUFC 1975 the rest of us did/are and hence its hard for me to judge the accuracy of any information that you have been given. That's fair enough. There isn't much more that I can say, without breaching confidences, but I believe these people to be both genuine and sincere, whilst having the funds to match their ambition. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all develops.
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