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Post by headingtontrev on Jan 6, 2011 15:07:16 GMT
Just for clarity, as someone who has commented on this thread, my frustration is with IL, not with Oxvox per se. However, I would be dissappointed if Oxvox allowed IL to edit their minutes too much, ending up with an inaccurate, or sanitised, view of the meeting. Appreciate your comment, ER. I can add if it needs saying that we've got no interest or intention in seeing notes of meetings sanitised, we want as full account an account as possible to be made available. Regarding the delay, the first days were ours (as the meeting was on Dec 13 evening and we took a not unreasonable 4 days to write up a version which all 8 OxVox attendees were happy with), since then I've been in touch twice with IL - on Dec 31, when he said they would take a few days, and today, to check on progress. He's just replied and confirmed he's been away and aims to review them tomorrow. So hopefully they will be out to trust members and up on our website at some point over the weekend, trip to Aldershot permitting. With the hols, the delay is IMHO fairly unremarkable in terms of working days; but since SuperOx has already alluded to a personal issue, if it had happened to me it would have displaced reviewing a set of meeting notes down my list of things to do.
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Post by Potters Right Boot on Jan 6, 2011 18:31:21 GMT
That may well be the case, Ricky, but this is not your average corporate environment. In that environment several thousand people are not waiting for a set of minutes to be approved, not to mention the local media etc. This is an information hungry/media influenced/goldfish bowl of a business. Furthermore, these minutes carry great significance, as they are the minutes from our owner's first meeting (in five years!!!) with his club's fan group committee. Now if he doesn't understand the reason why so many people are intersted in these minutes, perhaps he needs it spelled out to him? How about: "We want to know, Ian, what your view on the future of our club is. I know you read this message board, so pull your finger out and get the minutes sorted, as it's beginning to look as if you don't care.....and we don't want that old boy, do we?" Kind of get your point Eric, but in view of various comments on this thread, don't think you can be too critical of Mr Lenagan. As for the minutes being 'sanitised', well I'd appreciate your comments when you get to read them; which as headingtrev says will be in the next couple of days abw.
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Post by mcf86 on Jan 6, 2011 19:00:35 GMT
YES, but even if I was not, as a paying supporter of Oxford United I have the right to know what the owner has planned for my club. Whooa.. Only asked because i thought that maybe those who are members of the group may have more information and so if you're a member -that would clearly not have been the case! Btw, i am an OxVolx member -but forgot to re-new my details and so have not received any correspondence via email.
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Post by Maurice Earp on Jan 6, 2011 19:22:36 GMT
YES, but even if I was not, as a paying supporter of Oxford United I have the right to know what the owner has planned for my club. Whooa.. Only asked because i thought that maybe those who are members of the group may have more information and so if you're a member -that would clearly not have been the case! Btw, i am an OxVolx member -but forgot to re-new my details and so have not received any correspondence via email. Have just sent you a pm regarding renewals.
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nerps
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Post by nerps on Jan 7, 2011 11:44:36 GMT
several thousand people are not waiting for a set of minutes to be approved, not to mention the local media etc.
Now if he doesn't understand the reason why so many people are intersted in these minutes,
All good points there Eric, but surely you must be incorrect on the numbers. The last I heard there were still only around 500 members of OxVox. With the acknowledged importance of this meeting and the other successes highlighted by BB you would think at least a few more of our information-hungry OUFC fans (app 7-8000)would be bothered to get off their backsides and join/actively partake in the trust and its activities. Then at least the murmurs of discontent might add speed to most things concerning the club.
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Post by slappy on Jan 7, 2011 12:09:21 GMT
Why the clamour to see these minutes? We've already decided what they will say, and have our thoughts and interpretations already set.
It is important that they are a true record of what was said and intended. It is easy to mix up reporting things that MAY happen and things that WILL happen. Or that events are planned for next year, next football season, when the meeting was in 2010 and we are now in 2011.
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Post by paulayres on Jan 7, 2011 12:09:40 GMT
several thousand people are not waiting for a set of minutes to be approved, not to mention the local media etc. Now if he doesn't understand the reason why so many people are intersted in these minutes, All good points there Eric, but surely you must be incorrect on the numbers. The last I heard there were still only around 500 members of OxVox. With the acknowledged importance of this meeting and the other successes highlighted by BB you would think at least a few more of our information-hungry OUFC fans (app 7-8000)would be bothered to get off their backsides and join/actively partake in the trust and its activities. Then at least the murmurs of discontent might add speed to most things concerning the club. Why??? Although I am a member, I dont see why those who are not should rush to join. The fact is that a meeting that took place on the 13th December and as of today the 7th Jan we have yet to see what was discussed at the meeting. It would have been nice if we had been sent a copy of the agenda prior to the meeting to see what was going to be discussed with IL. I know we were asked to put forward questions we would like asked, however I did not see anything posted or emailed regarding the final list of questions. In addition, I would be interested to know how different the set of mins that were sent to IL for aproval differ from the ones that are published.
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 7, 2011 13:07:33 GMT
several thousand people are not waiting for a set of minutes to be approved, not to mention the local media etc. Now if he doesn't understand the reason why so many people are intersted in these minutes, All good points there Eric, but surely you must be incorrect on the numbers. The last I heard there were still only around 500 members of OxVox. With the acknowledged importance of this meeting and the other successes highlighted by BB you would think at least a few more of our information-hungry OUFC fans (app 7-8000)would be bothered to get off their backsides and join/actively partake in the trust and its activities. Then at least the murmurs of discontent might add speed to most things concerning the club. Why??? Although I am a member, I dont see why those who are not should rush to join. The fact is that a meeting that took place on the 13th December and as of today the 7th Jan we have yet to see what was discussed at the meeting. It would have been nice if we had been sent a copy of the agenda prior to the meeting to see what was going to be discussed with IL. I know we were asked to put forward questions we would like asked, however I did not see anything posted or emailed regarding the final list of questions. In addition, I would be interested to know how different the set of mins that were sent to IL for aproval differ from the ones that are published. They aren't paid staff members running OxVox and they do have lives (and jobs) outside of it to lead. Also, in the timeframe you mention includes Christmas and New Year which both sides of the meeting will have spent time with their families and possibly been away. Also, it has been suggested IL's had family issues to deal with. To complain about the length of time taken is frankly unreasonable considering the above. If you want all this additional information sent out then I'm sure an extra pair of hands would be very useful for OxVox especially in a busy period like Christmas/New Year for people. The people that want OxVox to ask their questions/put across their view or get access to OxVox's work but aren't even members are taking the mickey. That is the point I think Nerps is making.
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Post by Eric Read on Jan 7, 2011 14:15:44 GMT
Why??? Although I am a member, I dont see why those who are not should rush to join. The fact is that a meeting that took place on the 13th December and as of today the 7th Jan we have yet to see what was discussed at the meeting. It would have been nice if we had been sent a copy of the agenda prior to the meeting to see what was going to be discussed with IL. I know we were asked to put forward questions we would like asked, however I did not see anything posted or emailed regarding the final list of questions. In addition, I would be interested to know how different the set of mins that were sent to IL for aproval differ from the ones that are published. They aren't paid staff members running OxVox and they do have lives (and jobs) outside of it to lead. Also, in the timeframe you mention includes Christmas and New Year which both sides of the meeting will have spent time with their families and possibly been away. Also, it has been suggested IL's had family issues to deal with. To complain about the length of time taken is frankly unreasonable considering the above. If you want all this additional information sent out then I'm sure an extra pair of hands would be very useful for OxVox especially in a busy period like Christmas/New Year for people. The people that want OxVox to ask their questions/put across their view or get access to OxVox's work but aren't even members are taking the mickey. That is the point I think Nerps is making. In case that's aimed at me, I am a member of Oxvox and have previously been a committee member. I have also stated that my frustration is with IL, not Oxvox. And I STILL think it has taken him (IL) too long to get the minutes back. If the part time, have got day jobs, volunteers of the Oxvox committee can get them to him in 4 days why has it taken the multi millionaire, business owner, must have a secretary, PA, several other lackys, club owner 3 weeks to return them? ?!!!!! Sorry but IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 7, 2011 15:12:11 GMT
They aren't paid staff members running OxVox and they do have lives (and jobs) outside of it to lead. Also, in the timeframe you mention includes Christmas and New Year which both sides of the meeting will have spent time with their families and possibly been away. Also, it has been suggested IL's had family issues to deal with. To complain about the length of time taken is frankly unreasonable considering the above. If you want all this additional information sent out then I'm sure an extra pair of hands would be very useful for OxVox especially in a busy period like Christmas/New Year for people. The people that want OxVox to ask their questions/put across their view or get access to OxVox's work but aren't even members are taking the mickey. That is the point I think Nerps is making. In case that's aimed at me, I am a member of Oxvox and have previously been a committee member. I have also stated that my frustration is with IL, not Oxvox. And I STILL think it has taken him (IL) too long to get the minutes back. If the part time, have got day jobs, volunteers of the Oxvox committee can get them to him in 4 days why has it taken the multi millionaire, business owner, must have a secretary, PA, several other lackys, club owner 3 weeks to return them? ?!!!!! Sorry but IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH! It wasn't aimed at you in anyway, it was a response to paulayres post about the time taken and his suggestion of more work/information for OxVox. As for the time taken considering the time of year, with IL being away and the personal issue suggested by somebody else, like most people I suspect, confirming the minutes of a meeting will be so far down the list of priority. Were IL's staff at the meeting, and so able to confirm the minutes? Also, they may have been on holiday as well considering it was Christmas/New Year! Furthermore, does it make any real difference if we knew what the minutes said on 4th January or 10th January (as an example for dates)? The post was also aimed at those who aren't members, who demand answers and results from OxVox when they aren't willing to contribute to OxVox.
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Post by Eric Read on Jan 7, 2011 15:43:50 GMT
OK, fair enough Marked Ox, thanks for coming back to me.
I do think, though, that the issue is one of priorities, and by delaying the return of these minutes (which IL knew was in the public domain) it creates the impression that OUFC is pretty low down on IL's list of priorities.
Put it another way. IL gets minutes after 4 days, reads them, makes a few amendments, sends them back, Oxvox issue minutes, everyone looks both efficient and interested. No possible grounds for complaint. By delaying their return it opens the door for critiscism, whether that critscism is justified or not. It really has turned into a bit of a PR disaster, and it could have been avoided if a little more thought had gone into returning the minutes promptly.
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nerps
Full Member
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Post by nerps on Jan 7, 2011 15:53:54 GMT
Just to be clear, my post wasn't aimed at you either, I just used your points to highlight the disproportion between those looking to OxVox to put in the work and those who bother to take up actual membership, thereby helping financially if not physically.
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Post by John Lennon on Jan 7, 2011 16:03:21 GMT
In case that's aimed at me, I am a member of Oxvox and have previously been a committee member. I have also stated that my frustration is with IL, not Oxvox. And I STILL think it has taken him (IL) too long to get the minutes back. If the part time, have got day jobs, volunteers of the Oxvox committee can get them to him in 4 days why has it taken the multi millionaire, business owner, must have a secretary, PA, several other lackys, club owner 3 weeks to return them? ?!!!!! Sorry but IT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH! It wasn't aimed at you in anyway, it was a response to paulayres post about the time taken and his suggestion of more work/information for OxVox. As for the time taken considering the time of year, with IL being away and the personal issue suggested by somebody else, like most people I suspect, confirming the minutes of a meeting will be so far down the list of priority. Were IL's staff at the meeting, and so able to confirm the minutes? Also, they may have been on holiday as well considering it was Christmas/New Year! Furthermore, does it make any real difference if we knew what the minutes said on 4th January or 10th January (as an example for dates)? The post was also aimed at those who aren't members, who demand answers and results from OxVox when they aren't willing to contribute to OxVox.I disagree, season ticket holders have every right to demand answers, so it makes no difference if they are members of OxVox or not
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 7, 2011 16:15:42 GMT
It wasn't aimed at you in anyway, it was a response to paulayres post about the time taken and his suggestion of more work/information for OxVox. As for the time taken considering the time of year, with IL being away and the personal issue suggested by somebody else, like most people I suspect, confirming the minutes of a meeting will be so far down the list of priority. Were IL's staff at the meeting, and so able to confirm the minutes? Also, they may have been on holiday as well considering it was Christmas/New Year! Furthermore, does it make any real difference if we knew what the minutes said on 4th January or 10th January (as an example for dates)? The post was also aimed at those who aren't members, who demand answers and results from OxVox when they aren't willing to contribute to OxVox.I disagree, season ticket holders have every right to demand answers, so it makes no difference if they are members of OxVox or not How does the season ticket fund or contribute to OxVox? Furthermore, why has a season ticket holder got any more right to expect OxVox to do things on their behalf without contributing than somebody who pays on the day?
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Post by paulayres on Jan 7, 2011 16:18:05 GMT
Why??? Although I am a member, I dont see why those who are not should rush to join. The fact is that a meeting that took place on the 13th December and as of today the 7th Jan we have yet to see what was discussed at the meeting. It would have been nice if we had been sent a copy of the agenda prior to the meeting to see what was going to be discussed with IL. I know we were asked to put forward questions we would like asked, however I did not see anything posted or emailed regarding the final list of questions. In addition, I would be interested to know how different the set of mins that were sent to IL for aproval differ from the ones that are published. They aren't paid staff members running OxVox and they do have lives (and jobs) outside of it to lead. Also, in the timeframe you mention includes Christmas and New Year which both sides of the meeting will have spent time with their families and possibly been away. Also, it has been suggested IL's had family issues to deal with. To complain about the length of time taken is frankly unreasonable considering the above. If you want all this additional information sent out then I'm sure an extra pair of hands would be very useful for OxVox especially in a busy period like Christmas/New Year for people. The people that want OxVox to ask their questions/put across their view or get access to OxVox's work but aren't even members are taking the mickey. That is the point I think Nerps is making. So you think that having a copy of the agenda sent out via e mail or posted on this site takes up a lot of time do you. I have news for you guess what, the Oxvox committee sent copies of agendas etc via e mail so what extra work is involved in sending a copy out to all Oxvox members?? seconds thats what. Nobody on here including me are having a go at Oxvox but the time taken by IL to have the mins returned. Still lets not upset the owner by asking him to be efficient in his dealings with the supporters.
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Post by paulayres on Jan 7, 2011 16:23:22 GMT
Just for clarity, as someone who has commented on this thread, my frustration is with IL, not with Oxvox per se. However, I would be dissappointed if Oxvox allowed IL to edit their minutes too much, ending up with an inaccurate, or sanitised, view of the meeting. Appreciate your comment, ER. I can add if it needs saying that we've got no interest or intention in seeing notes of meetings sanitised, we want as full account an account as possible to be made available. Regarding the delay, the first days were ours (as the meeting was on Dec 13 evening and we took a not unreasonable 4 days to write up a version which all 8 OxVox attendees were happy with), since then I've been in touch twice with IL - on Dec 31, when he said they would take a few days, and today, to check on progress. He's just replied and confirmed he's been away and aims to review them tomorrow. So hopefully they will be out to trust members and up on our website at some point over the weekend, trip to Aldershot permitting. With the hols, the delay is IMHO fairly unremarkable in terms of working days; but since SuperOx has already alluded to a personal issue, if it had happened to me it would have displaced reviewing a set of meeting notes down my list of things to do. So IL had the mins on the 17th December and he will be looking at them today 7th January. No wonder the club got into problems in the past if it takes this long to ratify a set of mins that 8 attendees out of 10 agreed were correct back on the 17th December. Taking the piss or what.
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Post by John Lennon on Jan 7, 2011 16:32:30 GMT
I disagree, season ticket holders have every right to demand answers, so it makes no difference if they are members of OxVox or not How does the season ticket fund or contribute to OxVox? Furthermore, why has a season ticket holder got any more right to expect OxVox to do things on their behalf without contributing than somebody who pays on the day? Then if you put it like that, every fan has the right. OxVox is a supporters trust, not a members only trust.
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 7, 2011 17:21:34 GMT
How does the season ticket fund or contribute to OxVox? Furthermore, why has a season ticket holder got any more right to expect OxVox to do things on their behalf without contributing than somebody who pays on the day? Then if you put it like that, every fan has the right. OxVox is a supporters trust, not a members only trust. OxVox represents its members so it is a members only trust but those members are part of the wider OUFC Community. As the committee and members freely give access to info is their choice so non-members get the info but it doesn't give you a right to it. Put another way, why do you think you have the 'right' to benefit from the work of OxVox for nothing when the members do contribute, at the least financially, so that the Trust can operate and work towards its objectives?
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 7, 2011 17:42:26 GMT
They aren't paid staff members running OxVox and they do have lives (and jobs) outside of it to lead. Also, in the timeframe you mention includes Christmas and New Year which both sides of the meeting will have spent time with their families and possibly been away. Also, it has been suggested IL's had family issues to deal with. To complain about the length of time taken is frankly unreasonable considering the above. If you want all this additional information sent out then I'm sure an extra pair of hands would be very useful for OxVox especially in a busy period like Christmas/New Year for people. The people that want OxVox to ask their questions/put across their view or get access to OxVox's work but aren't even members are taking the mickey. That is the point I think Nerps is making. So you think that having a copy of the agenda sent out via e mail or posted on this site takes up a lot of time do you. I have news for you guess what, the Oxvox committee sent copies of agendas etc via e mail so what extra work is involved in sending a copy out to all Oxvox members?? seconds thats what. Nobody on here including me are having a go at Oxvox but the time taken by IL to have the mins returned. Still lets not upset the owner by asking him to be efficient in his dealings with the supporters. You didn't just ask for an agenda though, a final list of questions was also mentioned which is all more work on top of what the Committee members are already doing, at what is already a busy time of the year. Also, is it really that important that the Agenda is seen when the minutes will be published so the questions asked will be known then? Plenty of people on here and the old site have had a go at OxVox many times. As for the time taken for the minutes, as said, considering the time of the new year, going on holiday (or isn't he allowed one until everything OUFC, even when not urgent, has been dealt with), coupled with a personal issue that arose for IL as has been suggested on here means confirming minutes from a meeting would be way down the list of priorities. It is hardly that long or unreasonable time period anyway considering the number of working days, hardly inefficient. Why is it so important, other than as something to talk about on here, that the details of the minutes must be known before now or before early next week? The key for me is that IL had the meeting with OxVox so we will get to see answers from him. I could understand complaining about no meeting take place but complaining about a few days longer wait to see the minutes is making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Post by Eric Read on Jan 7, 2011 17:55:07 GMT
So you think that having a copy of the agenda sent out via e mail or posted on this site takes up a lot of time do you. I have news for you guess what, the Oxvox committee sent copies of agendas etc via e mail so what extra work is involved in sending a copy out to all Oxvox members?? seconds thats what. Nobody on here including me are having a go at Oxvox but the time taken by IL to have the mins returned. Still lets not upset the owner by asking him to be efficient in his dealings with the supporters. You didn't just ask for an agenda though, a final list of questions was also mentioned which is all more work on top of what the Committee members are already doing, at what is already a busy time of the year. Also, is it really that important that the Agenda is seen when the minutes will be published so the questions asked will be known then? Plenty of people on here and the old site have had a go at OxVox many times. As for the time taken for the minutes, as said, considering the time of the new year, going on holiday (or isn't he allowed one until everything OUFC, even when not urgent, has been dealt with), coupled with a personal issue that arose for IL as has been suggested on here means confirming minutes from a meeting would be way down the list of priorities. It is hardly that long or unreasonable time period anyway considering the number of working days, hardly inefficient. Why is it so important, other than as something to talk about on here, that the details of the minutes must be known before now or before early next week? The key for me is that IL had the meeting with OxVox so we will get to see answers from him. I could understand complaining about no meeting take place but complaining about a few days longer wait to see the minutes is making a mountain out of a molehill. That is the whole point though. It took him 5 long bloody years to have a meeting with the Oxvox committee, and then he can't give it sufficient importance to turn around a set of minutes in less than 3 weeks! Can you see why people think he doesn't take the supporters (or supporters trust) seriously?
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