|
Post by Gavin Archery on Jan 10, 2011 10:34:45 GMT
Thinking about the Berbatov dive yesterday, is football becoming a joke of a sport at the highest level? I think he should be ashamed of his first minute collapse yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by amarillo on Jan 10, 2011 10:58:22 GMT
Its not just the highest level - it happens right through the game, you just don't see a hundred replays from every possible angle when its not the highest level.
No, football isn't becoming a joke because of it, but we should start punishing players retrospectively in my opinion. It would be easy to have a panel of people who analyse the video evidence and give Berbatov a 2 match ban. That would stop players doing it. Simple.
|
|
|
Post by Gavin Archery on Jan 10, 2011 11:13:33 GMT
What goes around comes around. Man Utd will get the same happening to them maybe?
|
|
|
Post by Agadoo on Jan 10, 2011 11:31:06 GMT
Its not just the highest level - it happens right through the game, you just don't see a hundred replays from every possible angle when its not the highest level. No, football isn't becoming a joke because of it, but we should start punishing players retrospectively in my opinion. It would be easy to have a panel of people who analyse the video evidence and give Berbatov a 2 match ban. That would stop players doing it. Simple. no, because you can't prove it
|
|
|
Post by amarillo on Jan 10, 2011 11:51:46 GMT
should we therefore not punish criminals because we can't prove it 100%?
Of course there is an element of doubt, but you can increase the chances of justice being done by at least having a system in place where a panel reviews the video evidence afterwards.
|
|
|
Post by Boogaloo on Jan 10, 2011 12:06:02 GMT
I've always been an advocate of giving retrospecive 2 game ban for diving as yellow cards clearly don't work.
You can be retrospectively banned for violent conduct, so why not diving? Just because the referee didn't see it, or was conned into giving a penalty doesn't suddenly make it alright.
|
|
|
Post by Long Live Clarkey on Jan 10, 2011 12:40:37 GMT
Clearly refs don't like giving yellow cards for dives. More often than not when a player goes down too easily and the ref doesn't buy it, play continues. This is a big problem. If they were booked every time there (as I think the rulebook states they should be) then potentially, problem solved. As moobs says, it's very difficult to prove retrospectively by video, but refs have to make snap judgements for everything else, so why not this? I just get the feeling that FIFA/The FA/whoever don't see diving as a problem, and as long as that mentality continues, players will keep making the most of contact, even if that contact isn't nearly enough to impede them. At the moment it's difficult to even blame players for it because there seems to be an incident per match of a player buying a foul/card from the referee.
|
|
|
Post by sihath on Jan 10, 2011 12:52:24 GMT
They do it because they can get away with it and, even when it's totally obvious they have dived, their teammates, manager, fans will support them.
Rugby uses sighting/citeing (not sure of spelling) to allow clubs/officials to review incidents after a game and take action against the offenders.
We can tell if a player has dived or not. Just look at all the youtube clips. There are plenty there from the Premier League that should have been used for evidence.
Viera diving against Liverpool, Gerrard against Arsenal (I think), Drogba and Lehman, NGog against Birmingham. When the evidence is overwhelming and there is no doubt then hefty punishments. Not fines as the players have so much money it won't affect them. Points deductions or long bans.
I would suggest diving and feigning injury would be a good place to start. There can't be a reason NOT to do it.
|
|
|
Post by Gavin Archery on Jan 10, 2011 12:53:26 GMT
Trouble is, if something isn't done it will continue as the norm. The only needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.....
|
|
|
Post by Boogaloo on Jan 10, 2011 12:57:28 GMT
The trouble is for a penalty to given you must be 100% certain, and to brandish a yellow card you must be 100% certain that it was a deliberate dive in an attempt to con the ref.
Having refereed myself, more often than not you can't be 100% certain either way, hence you get the decision of no yellow, no penalty. But I would like to see i, the ref noting down the player's shirt number and after the game give this report to the FA simulation committee, and if they are found to be cheating - ban them for two games.
|
|
|
Post by Gavin Archery on Jan 10, 2011 12:59:39 GMT
Retrospective analysis might work. One things for certain though your 100% is like the diff of conviction in crminal and civil law, balance of probability etc.....
|
|
|
Post by Lone Gunman on Jan 10, 2011 17:34:16 GMT
The trouble is for a penalty to given you must be 100% certain, and to brandish a yellow card you must be 100% certain that it was a deliberate dive in an attempt to con the ref. Having refereed myself, more often than not you can't be 100% certain either way, hence you get the decision of no yellow, no penalty. But I would like to see i, the ref noting down the player's shirt number and after the game give this report to the FA simulation committee, and if they are found to be cheating - ban them for two games. Surely the trick would be simply to refer all footage of any incident involving the issuing of a card or a penalty to a panel for review. Offenders would recieve an automatic 2 match ban. This would remove the potential for a blatant offence being missed because the ref did not include a reference to it in his post match report.
|
|
|
Post by sihath on Jan 12, 2011 12:45:33 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Agadoo on Jan 12, 2011 14:06:59 GMT
You still have the problem about proving it. No matter how obvious it is you cannot prove beyond any doubt that a player dived because it's circumstancial. There's too much grey area and Top clubs can get their lawyers involved. If a player denies it, you haven't got a leg to stand on, no pun intended....
|
|
|
Post by Marked Ox on Jan 12, 2011 15:06:59 GMT
You still have the problem about proving it. No matter how obvious it is you cannot prove beyond any doubt that a player dived because it's circumstancial. There's too much grey area and Top clubs can get their lawyers involved. If a player denies it, you haven't got a leg to stand on, no pun intended.... The majority of dives by players are easily spotted on video. For example, when both of the player's legs go up in the air at the same time (Once in a blue moon this will be caused by a challenge but 99.99 % aren't) or he is already going down just before the challenge is made which are quite frequent events! There will be a few that are borderline either way but that is why a panel should be used to decide based on the weight of the evidence. This has already been done in some other countries, such as in the A-League (Australia) where 2 players dived in separate matches but same weekend and one got a penalty while another got a player sent-off. Both players were banned for 2 or 3 games if Iirc. Why does the proof have to be absolute? It isn't in other footballing disciplinary decisions or even standard refereeing decisions, so why can't this be the same? Referees and disciplinary meetings make value judgements all the time based on interpretation of the rules so this would be the same. Frankly, diving is ruining the game for me and it just pushes the balance even further in favour of the attacker as the punishments are unbalanced already in their favour. The sooner something is done then the better for the game long term, imo.
|
|
|
Post by fredwest on Jan 12, 2011 15:59:12 GMT
Berbatov never dived tho he was fouled,not that bad a foul but a foul...........PENALTY..........if ya wanna see diving watch Franny Lee for Derby in the 70s
|
|
|
Post by Boogaloo on Jan 12, 2011 19:19:10 GMT
You still have the problem about proving it. No matter how obvious it is you cannot prove beyond any doubt that a player dived because it's circumstancial. There's too much grey area and Top clubs can get their lawyers involved. If a player denies it, you haven't got a leg to stand on, no pun intended.... I disagree. With video evidence you can quite easily see whether a player slipped or took a deliberate dive especially when you have multiple angles, super slo-mo and so on, and if the player did slip maybe they should be honest and tell the ref. It happens in cricket. I remember a few years back Robbie Fowler slipped in the penalty area, and he went up to the ref and pleaded with him to REVERSE his decision to award Liverpool a penalty. If however they decide to be dishonest, then video evidence will catch them out and they can spend the next two games watching from the stands.
|
|
|
Post by Boogaloo on Jan 12, 2011 19:30:23 GMT
That's a very good article. I think TV can take a lot of the blame for the lack of respect shown to match officials.
|
|
|
Post by junior1 on Jan 12, 2011 20:27:04 GMT
Nice to see Eboue rolling around on the floor clutching his face. Replays showed...... No contact.... Hmmmmm
|
|
|
Post by Agadoo on Jan 12, 2011 21:12:03 GMT
Nice to see Eboue rolling around on the floor clutching his face. Replays showed...... No contact.... Hmmmmm Don't even go there
|
|