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Post by Pogue Mahone on Aug 3, 2010 9:01:43 GMT
I guess it may be helpful to have pepole's input who are outside of the group...thoughts Pogue? Genuinely... Thoughts.... These young lads are trying to do something, but they are fighting an incredible battle to get anything moving. Examples: - The use of the word Ultra is going to put people off simply for it's previous links. - As it is, I struggle to take a group of mouthy 16 year old's seriously when they are doing their thing. - Can't imagine the older generation are really to into this thing, as the atmospheres were always there before the Ultra's, and it'll be there long after. Personally, I don't think it is being done correctly. |
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Post by Ricky Otto on Aug 3, 2010 11:20:42 GMT
If you meet them they're far from mouthy. Just my opinion. Pretty mature bunch for teens.
In terms of atmosphere, it has been very dead at times in the Curva East. A name is a name. I dont honestly think people believe theyre violent or fascist or that theyre associated with that, and it would be surprising if that weer the case.
If its not being done correctly...what would you do? I resoect your opinion but I enjoy the whole flags and atmosphere thing too much. Helpful to have someones opinion i respect who can provide some objective and constructive criticism.
I agree Giallo Esorcito seemed a good name to me. Not sure why they changed to Ultras.
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Post by Pogue Mahone on Aug 3, 2010 13:02:55 GMT
If you meet them they're far from mouthy. Just my opinion. Pretty mature bunch for teens. In terms of atmosphere, it has been very dead at times in the Curva East. A name is a name. I dont honestly think people believe theyre violent or fascist or that theyre associated with that, and it would be surprising if that weer the case. If its not being done correctly...what would you do? I resoect your opinion but I enjoy the whole flags and atmosphere thing too much. Helpful to have someones opinion i respect who can provide some objective and constructive criticism. I agree Giallo Esorcito seemed a good name to me. Not sure why they changed to Ultras. Ok Otto, you got me, I'll try the constructive thing....  Sadly last year I did not attend many home games and so don't have as much of an idea about what is going on. However, I went to a few games, and this is what I am basing my opinions on. First of all, the flags. To appears many people bring the flags to games. They appear at the back of the Oxford Mail stand, and it appears they have simply been thrown up there with little thought. You have the flags on top of other flags, more St George's Crosses with town names in them. Admittedly, this is a very English thing to do, but I think it just doesn't look right. It comes across as to defuse. The flags to, nice idea. If done well with a bit of co-ordination. In other words, a GE display should simply be this. It should have something that is unique to Oxford. We sing the same songs as every other team in the league with subtle changes. Saint Georges Cross's should be kept away. Get a club agreement to get into the Kassam earlier to put up the flags. I base this on Munster Rugby games. Many can scoff at it being rugby where there is seen to be little passion in the terraces. That simply isn't true. I know at least one poster on this forum can back me up on this. Munster only allow Red or blue falgs/banners in the stand at certain locations. You won't see many (if any) Irish flags, or club flags either. It is Munster, together as one against anything anyone else can bring to Thomond Park. Each of the banners/flags say something about us. "Stand Up And Fight" is a song that is sung going back to the early 80's (If not before - maybe 1977 if memory serves), and is written on a banner. "To The Brave And Faithful, Nothing Is Impossible", possibly the most famous banner of all and a slogan that has stuck with the club throughout. Just to examples of something that embodies the clubs heart and spirit. Then you have all the other flags dotted around, and the ones on poles to (Not above a certain size - I think the Swiss Yellows one is God awful and has no place at a sporting occasion). On to the singing, as mentioned, what individuality is there? Not much at all from any other visiting team. To suggest there is "banter" with visiting is so far off the mark it's untrue. There are no characters willing to put themselves out there and start something about an event on the pitch, or about the away teams. It's monotonal, and quiet to say the least. The answer isn't a drum. Nor is it a vuvuzela. These are the tools of an idiot, and simply don't belong at football. The thought of it is depressing. If the crowd can't create an atmosphere alone, what help will a drummer, horn or air-raid siren make? Poor effort all around if that's the case. So what is there? Song sheets like at Highbury? No thanks. What is needed - our own songs. They don't even have to be related to Oxford. Munster again: The Fields of Athenry - a small village in another Irish province. Stand up and Fight - A song sung by the players after a game in Ulster around the late 70's that has simply caught on. Eric Read had a fantastic example. A song that was sung, but died out. Something that could be sung ad nueseum for any length of time. Easy to know. Different. A tune that we have not done for a while. Different. It's getting it started that's the problem. More like this would be good though. I just don't think people want to join in. Football isgoing this way. Now, the people behind the GE. Kids, basically. How many of us, on not seeing them are going to take any notice of them? I honestly believe their ages count against them. I wouldn't take any notice of them, and I don't think I would. Sorry, that's just how I see it. Kids with no experience of anything other than sterile football matches and school. Not sure if that'll help anyone out, but there is your answer Otto! |
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Post by Long John Silver on Aug 3, 2010 13:43:08 GMT
If you meet them they're far from mouthy. Just my opinion. Pretty mature bunch for teens. In terms of atmosphere, it has been very dead at times in the Curva East. A name is a name. I dont honestly think people believe theyre violent or fascist or that theyre associated with that, and it would be surprising if that weer the case. If its not being done correctly...what would you do? I resoect your opinion but I enjoy the whole flags and atmosphere thing too much. Helpful to have someones opinion i respect who can provide some objective and constructive criticism. I agree Giallo Esorcito seemed a good name to me. Not sure why they changed to Ultras. Ok Otto, you got me, I'll try the constructive thing.... Sadly last year I did not attend many home games and so don't have as much of an idea about what is going on. However, I went to a few games, and this is what I am basing my opinions on. First of all, the flags. To appears many people bring the flags to games. They appear at the back of the Oxford Mail stand, and it appears they have simply been thrown up there with little thought. You have the flags on top of other flags, more St George's Crosses with town names in them. Admittedly, this is a very English thing to do, but I think it just doesn't look right. It comes across as to defuse. The flags to, nice idea. If done well with a bit of co-ordination. In other words, a GE display should simply be this. It should have something that is unique to Oxford. We sing the same songs as every other team in the league with subtle changes. Saint Georges Cross's should be kept away. Get a club agreement to get into the Kassam earlier to put up the flags. Not sure if I'm reading your post correctly, but the Oxford Ultras (GE) would never be seen with any kind of St. Georges cross, as all their flags and banners are totally Oxford related and in yellow and blue (and white) only - just as it should be. It's other people (mainly 'old skool' types) who continue to bring the odd St. Georges cross flags to games (they should be banned  . On an earlier point, knowing quite a few of the young lads, they are not mouthy (on the whole) and are a decent bunch. Unfortunately, it's other peoples prejudices and pre-conceived notions that work against them. I don't think that a few of the songs they try to sing will ever catch on with the majority though - the "we love you" song is particularly crap. |
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wispa
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Post by wispa on Aug 3, 2010 13:46:53 GMT
First of all.. We have no flags or banners that arn't yellow and blue (some have small amounts of white on) NO ST GEORGE CROSSES, i agree with you that they don't fit at club games and look tacky. About the flags being thrown up with little thought.. it is hard, because the club insists we dont cover the block numbers on the back wall, which then makes it a challenge to fit flags in in certain positions. Bit annoying that, but can't be helped.  On our displays being unique, We have done many unique displays. The banner read "The City Of Dreaming Spires" and we had 2 2-sticks either side, both with the sky line and one had OU with the other having FC on. pretty unique to Oxford isn't it? I can also think of many other banners that we have made that have unique sayings on "A CERTAIN ROMANCE" was used at York away. "WE ARE OXFORD" is a massive banner we have used quite often. "FOREVER AND ALWAYS" was seen at the home leg of play offs, along with a whole stand card display. "GLORY AWAITS YOU" was seen on the roundabout as the players left for Wembley along with a smokey, and was also held aloft at Wembley. OXFORD ULTRAS might have photos of all these but he's away atm so i cant get them to show you unfortunatley.  The singing is just.. well Shite nowadays, Your right that football is so sterile, with no atmosphere. A sad state of the modern game. Your right, i have no experience of what things used to be like, the London Road, Away trips where terraces would be packed, the edge that 70's and 80's football used to have ect. But i know what it could be like, if the fans had a different mindset. If you look all over europe and indeed the world, theres Ultras groups that put football atmospheres in this country to shame. Its not gunna change quickly, and tbh i doubt whether it ever will in this country. But theres small groups popping up at clubs throughout the country and i suppose it's got to start somewhere. There's a group at Celtic, called the Green Brigade, and their starting to have an enourous impact on the mentality of their fans.. They started out as just a small group wanting to change the atmosphere for the better. "I just don't think people want to join in, football is going this way" I agree, but I don't want it to go away with a wimper, at least try to ressurect it. It all comes down the sky sports/ over priced premiership that is all that kids see nowadays, all they see on the telly at the big games is a stadium full of tourist window lickers. I hope the Prem crashes and burns, and people return to supporting their local teams with pride. Also the all seater policy in the UK has killed the atmospheres. But meh, we try to do what we like to do.. Kids or not, We're trying, and things are improving slowly for us, as it is with other groups around the country. |
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Post by Pogue Mahone on Aug 3, 2010 13:48:57 GMT
LJS
1) Agree about the St George's Cross. It's others bringing it in and hoisting that standard anywhere and everywhere.
2) Fully agree. I hate everyone equally and have prejudged them.
3) Maybe - got to be worth a go though!
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Post by slappy on Aug 3, 2010 14:00:50 GMT
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Post by Ricky Otto on Aug 3, 2010 15:18:57 GMT
If you meet them they're far from mouthy. Just my opinion. Pretty mature bunch for teens. In terms of atmosphere, it has been very dead at times in the Curva East. A name is a name. I dont honestly think people believe theyre violent or fascist or that theyre associated with that, and it would be surprising if that weer the case. If its not being done correctly...what would you do? I resoect your opinion but I enjoy the whole flags and atmosphere thing too much. Helpful to have someones opinion i respect who can provide some objective and constructive criticism. I agree Giallo Esorcito seemed a good name to me. Not sure why they changed to Ultras. Ok Otto, you got me, I'll try the constructive thing.... Sadly last year I did not attend many home games and so don't have as much of an idea about what is going on. However, I went to a few games, and this is what I am basing my opinions on. [glow=red,2,300] START BY WATCHING SOME OF THE VIDEOS ON HERE INCLUDING THE ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY[/glow] http ://oxfordultras.blogspot.com/First of all, the flags. To appears many people bring the flags to games. They appear at the back of the Oxford Mail stand, and it appears they have simply been thrown up there with little thought. You have the flags on top of other flags, more St George's Crosses with town names in them. Admittedly, this is a very English thing to do, but I think it just doesn't look right. It comes across as to defuse. [glow=red,2,300]ENGLAND FLAGS AREN'T THERE BAG. IF YOU LOOK AT THE RANGE AND SIZE OF FLAGS IT'S PRETTY EXTENSIVE AND THOUGHTFUL (AS MUCH AS A FOOTBALL FLAG CAN BE). ps FORgIVE THE SHOUTING IM TRYING TO MAKE MY ANSWERS STAND OUT. AH, I@VE FOUND A GLOW BUTTON[/glow] The flags to, nice idea. If done well with a bit of co-ordination. In other words, a GE display should simply be this. It should have something that is unique to Oxford. We sing the same songs as every other team in the league with subtle changes. Saint Georges Cross's should be kept away. Get a club agreement to get into the Kassam earlier to put up the flags. I base this on Munster Rugby games. Many can scoff at it being rugby where there is seen to be little passion in the terraces. That simply isn't true. I know at least one poster on this forum can back me up on this. Munster only allow Red or blue falgs/banners in the stand at certain locations. You won't see many (if any) Irish flags, or club flags either. It is Munster, together as one against anything anyone else can bring to Thomond Park. Each of the banners/flags say something about us. "Stand Up And Fight" is a song that is sung going back to the early 80's (If not before - maybe 1977 if memory serves), and is written on a banner. "To The Brave And Faithful, Nothing Is Impossible", possibly the most famous banner of all and a slogan that has stuck with the club throughout. Just to examples of something that embodies the clubs heart and spirit. Then you have all the other flags dotted around, and the ones on poles to (Not above a certain size - I think the Swiss Yellows one is God awful and has no place at a sporting occasion). DISAGREE. I THINK BIGGER FLAGS ADD TO THE OCCASSION. I HATE SEEING SMALLER FLAGS EN MASSE e.g. CHELSEA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE DAYS On to the singing, as mentioned, what individuality is there? Not much at all from any other visiting team. To suggest there is "banter" with visiting is so far off the mark it's untrue. There are no characters willing to put themselves out there and start something about an event on the pitch, or about the away teams. It's monotonal, and quiet to say the least. The answer isn't a drum. Nor is it a vuvuzela. These are the tools of an idiot, and simply don't belong at football. The thought of it is depressing. If the crowd can't create an atmosphere alone, what help will a drummer, horn or air-raid siren make? Poor effort all around if that's the case. AGREED So what is there? Song sheets like at Highbury? No thanks. What is needed - our own songs. They don't even have to be related to Oxford. Munster again: The Fields of Athenry - a small village in another Irish province. Stand up and Fight - A song sung by the players after a game in Ulster around the late 70's that has simply caught on. AGREED Eric Read had a fantastic example. A song that was sung, but died out. Something that could be sung ad nueseum for any length of time. Easy to know. Different. A tune that we have not done for a while. Different. It's getting it started that's the problem. More like this would be good though. [glow=red,2,300]THEY HELP START MOST OF THE SONGS. WHEN THEY'VE TRIED TO DIVERSIFY THE SONGS NOBODY HAS JOINED IN. HOPEFULLY THE ERIC READ ACTION PLAN WILL WORK AS WELL. MAYBE THEY NEED TO TRY NEW SONGS AS AT THE MOMENT THEY'VE STUCK TO ONLY A COUPLE OF NEW ONES. THE EAST STAND IS DESPERATELY SHORT OF IMAGINATION THESE DAYS THOUGH[/glow] I just don't think people want to join in. Football isgoing this way. Now, the people behind the GE. Kids, basically. How many of us, on not seeing them are going to take any notice of them? I honestly believe their ages count against them. I wouldn't take any notice of them, and I don't think I would. Sorry, that's just how I see it. Kids with no experience of anything other than sterile football matches and school. THEY STARTED THIS WHEN THEY WERE ALL ABOUT 14. THEY'RE NOW ABOUT 16 BUT ARE ACTUALLY ENJOYABLE TO TALK TO AND USE THEIR BRAINS. ARE ALSO QUITE MATURE IN THE MAIN. I BELIEVE THEY WORK WITH KELVIN IN PLANNING AND HAVE A GOOD RAPPORT WITH THE CLUB. THEY WILL GET OLDER BUT I ADMIRE THAT THEY ARE GETTING UP AND DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE ATMOSPHERE. THEY'RE CEERTAINLY DOING BETTER THAN THE ULTIMATE YELLOWS EVER DID AND THAT WAS A GROUP OF ADULTS INCLUDING MYSELF, FAT ANDY, LONG JOHN SILVER, MYLES FRANCIS, BORIS, etc Not sure if that'll help anyone out, but there is your answer Otto! THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO ANSWER AND SORRY ONCE AGAIN FOR SHOUTING |
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Post by Pogue Mahone on Aug 3, 2010 15:22:59 GMT
Cheers Otto, the question that is now raised - what can be done?
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Post by Long John Silver on Aug 3, 2010 15:52:52 GMT
Pogue, aren't you also just a yougster of 26 or so? So no experience of any other football in England than the current sterile version?  |
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Post by Pogue Mahone on Aug 3, 2010 15:53:30 GMT
Pogue, aren't you also just a yougster of 26 or so? So no experience of any other football in England than the current sterile version? I'm a timetravelling ghost. |
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Post by OxfordUltras on Aug 3, 2010 16:04:37 GMT
Cheers Otto, the question that is now raised - what can be done? Older heads getting involved in key to the group, as you've pointed out people see us as spotty teens who are there to cause nothing but trouble, when infact if people came and spoke to us, as others have pointed out, they will find we are completly different to what they expect. There's nothing we can do about the age of members, and I don't see why that should put people of getting involved, but the thruth is it always will. People need to know what we're about and what we're trying to achieve at game (improved atmosphere, colour/noise and add the enjoyment back to going to games) and not to be put off by the 'ultra' tag. The word ultra will always be interpretated the wrong way over here, but when people actually take the time out to have a look at what they do, they will be suprised at what they see. They're not all fascist and we don't go out looking for trouble, infact we have a strong left wing element to the group. You've raised points PM that most people think about us, especially regarding the age, and it's good that you've taken the time out to post an indebt reply about it, unlike most others have done in the past. So basically what I'm trying to say is, what we really need is some older heads involved which will make us more widely appealing to other fans with in our fanbase. The Ultra 'scene' over ehre in the UK is largely made up of younger fans, but this is not to say older guys can't get involved, I know of lads in their 40/50s who run with groups across the world. We've been going what 1 and a half seasons now, and I think it's fair to say we have achieved a fair amount in that time, and with most things it takes time. The Red Ultras of A'deen were in their 10th season when they packed it in, and they had highs of 200/300 members involved with the group, but the truth is they never had enough support in general from fellow fans, club and police, and it took its toll on them, resulting in the group disbanding. So in order for us not to suffer the same fate we need to make sure we have enough support within our own club. The club in general like what we do from what I can gather, obviously bar 1 or 2 aspects and I'd like to think alot of our fans 'respect' what we are doing and what we're trying to achieve. Feel free too tell us what you think of the group because at the end of the day we need stuff that will help us attract new members and make us more widely appealing to fellow fans. |
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Post by Lithuanian Disco Power on Aug 3, 2010 16:40:45 GMT
Some very good posts on this thread and a very good read. Theres many mis conceptions about our group, we're not just gobby teenagers and a fair few of us do have brains. Your right that we havent experienced the golden days but we're doing our best to try and bring that back and if thats by changing our song book abit then so be it, new things must be added as at the moment we have a very limited song book. I cant think of many more than 6 or so chants that get belted out and known by many.
Just like to say about the word ultra too, it's not to do with hooliganism, yes abroad and in Italy where the scene is now dieing on its feet there has been violent between groups. Scooter throwing etc, but many of the top groups nowadays are non violent on the whole but with groups being so big your going to have elements as with any thing. And the fascist idea is pretty stupid as theres many left wing groups, probally as many as there are right wing groups and most groups are apolitical.
As others have said we're only gunna do better with more members and more bodies, which will hopefully come. Our average age is probally 17 now so we're not as young as we once where, we may have made a few rash decisions and sometimes arent the best at dealing with situations but thats to be expected. If we got a few more lads involved who want to sing stand and just generally get involved we will make even more of an impact on the support, but it's really down to people wanting to get involved. We dont bite so if anyone is genuinely interested in getting involved dont be afraid to PM one of the lads on here. Wispa, OxfordUltras, me.
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Post by captainox on Aug 3, 2010 22:56:44 GMT
Some very good and encouraging posts on here, I don't think the majority of fans appreciate the time and effort that is put in by the lads creating the displays - i know the card display v rushden took over 3 hours to set up and that's in addition to formulating an idea of how to display the cards. The smaller stuff still takes time and effort and most importantly money. The "Ultra" scene in the UK is beginning to thrive, with more and more fans understanding that British ultras (in the main) do not support hooliganism or fascism they're all about creating noise and colour and bringing passion back into football.
The Oxford Ultras have produced some fantastic displays since their formation and having helped on a few occasions to pull off these displays, I know how important it is to have hands on deck to ensure a successful display. Not many ultra groups attempt some sort of display at every game but the OU certainly tried this last season - from a large surfer at Altrincham to an OUFC and "A Certain Romance" banner at York.
The lads deserve to benefit from donations and support from fellow OUFC fans and for people to take them for what they really are - committed, loyal and passionate Oxford Unite fans and not to take them as what they are labelled as - mouthy, rude teenagers.
Get involved, even if it's waving a flag - get involved, make some noise and help the lads to create an atmosphere at every game- whatever the score
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Post by OxfordUltras on Aug 3, 2010 23:31:34 GMT
Some very good and encouraging posts on here, I don't think the majority of fans appreciate the time and effort that is put in by the lads creating the displays - i know the card display v rushden took over 3 hours to set up and that's in addition to formulating an idea of how to display the cards. The smaller stuff still takes time and effort and most importantly money. The "Ultra" scene in the UK is beginning to thrive, with more and more fans understanding that British ultras (in the main) do not support hooliganism or fascism they're all about creating noise and colour and bringing passion back into football. The Oxford Ultras have produced some fantastic displays since their formation and having helped on a few occasions to pull off these displays, I know how important it is to have hands on deck to ensure a successful display. Not many ultra groups attempt some sort of display at every game but the OU certainly tried this last season - from a large surfer at Altrincham to an OUFC and "A Certain Romance" banner at York. The lads deserve to benefit from donations and support from fellow OUFC fans and for people to take them for what they really are - committed, loyal and passionate Oxford Unite fans and not to take them as what they are labelled as - mouthy, rude teenagers. Get involved, even if it's waving a flag - get involved, make some noise and help the lads to create an atmosphere at every game- whatever the score A good post that J, if I may so myself. |
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Post by sam1985 on Aug 4, 2010 15:48:38 GMT
Some very good and encouraging posts on here, I don't think the majority of fans appreciate the time and effort that is put in by the lads creating the displays - i know the card display v rushden took over 3 hours to set up and that's in addition to formulating an idea of how to display the cards. The smaller stuff still takes time and effort and most importantly money. The "Ultra" scene in the UK is beginning to thrive, with more and more fans understanding that British ultras (in the main) do not support hooliganism or fascism they're all about creating noise and colour and bringing passion back into football. The Oxford Ultras have produced some fantastic displays since their formation and having helped on a few occasions to pull off these displays, I know how important it is to have hands on deck to ensure a successful display. Not many ultra groups attempt some sort of display at every game but the OU certainly tried this last season - from a large surfer at Altrincham to an OUFC and "A Certain Romance" banner at York. The lads deserve to benefit from donations and support from fellow OUFC fans and for people to take them for what they really are - committed, loyal and passionate Oxford Unite fans and not to take them as what they are labelled as - mouthy, rude teenagers. Get involved, even if it's waving a flag - get involved, make some noise and help the lads to create an atmosphere at every game- whatever the score Yeah I think ultras could be the saviour of English football from the way it's gone too far towards...well, you know what I mean, no need for the cliched rant about commercialism and passive crowds and families etc. On the whole this generation of English people are too politically apathetic for fascism and extreme politics to get involved anyway. Unless the EDL got their claws in at a few clubs whose fanbases are already susceptible to that sort of thing - but these are relatively few anyway. |
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wispa
Full Member
Posts: 105
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Post by wispa on Aug 4, 2010 17:34:55 GMT
Could admin possibly rename this thread "OXFORD ULTRAS" and perhaps make it a sticky thread so we can update it throughout the season so we can keep people informed?
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Post by mancyox on Aug 4, 2010 18:03:48 GMT
Keep it up Oxford Ultras! In terms of feedback, songs like 'Dale Cavese' will never EVER catch on! But I'd love for us to have some new songs to sing. Don't get me wrong, I join in with the atmosphere more than most, but I'm not at games with a large enough group to start new songs. I realy believe that it's down to you guys to get some new songs going! How about this one? www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_E11YdfXSUEasily adapted to Oxford and not too 'European' which some fans clearly don't like! There was also a mention for 'When you're smiling' to be sung at games. Is this still guna happen? But all in all, great work from you lads  |
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wispa
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Post by wispa on Aug 4, 2010 18:18:07 GMT
Your always welcome to come stand with us Mancy. I do quite like that song. Hmmm how to Oxfordise it... To that tune, but slightly different, and slower.. If you look in my heart, All that you will see, Is yellow and blue, I'm Oxford through and through. Sing it a couple of times over in your head..  |
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Post by mancyox on Aug 4, 2010 18:57:15 GMT
Cheers Wispa, I'm guessing you lads will be at Burton?
Worth a try with that songs and others for that matter, as some may catch on!
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