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Post by scoob on Jan 20, 2011 11:03:24 GMT
I just came across an old chart of our average league crowds since 1960 and the current average is very impressive:
Our current average crowd is 7236 which is up 20% from last seasons end of season average (excluding play off).
Our current average is the highest since 1997 when we average 7490 and the previous season 7608 both of which we were in old Division 2 (Championship). Other than those two seasons you have to go back to 1987 for higher crowds (8387) when we were in old Div One (Premiership).
We have to go back to 1964 for higher League Two (old Div Four) crowds than we have today.
The 2008/2009 average crowd was 4879 so the support has grown by 48% in just two years.
This shows just what a great job KT & CW have done in such a short space of time.
I wonder what crowds we will get when we make it to the League One or the Championship:
Our highest League One (old Div 3) average crowds were 9195 (1965), 8231 (1967) and 7677 (1983) all other seasons in Div 3 were lower than the current crowds.
In 1968, 1969 & 1970 our Div 2 (Championship) crowds were over 10K with 11543 in 1968 being our highest ever average crowd. Our highest Div 2 average crowd since the Maxwell era was 7608 and we are alreafy close to that.
All of the above seems to indicate that the new stadium has encouraged more people to come along so this should continue as we move up the divisions.
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Post by broncobullfrog on Jan 20, 2011 11:37:42 GMT
Great home crowds but I can't believe we have lost 6 home matches despite having such great crowds. Perhaps having an open end in a 3 sided stadium doesn't help neither does a couple of thousand seats empty on the half way line in the North stand.
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Post by mcf86 on Jan 20, 2011 11:47:24 GMT
Not sure it's fair to compare attendances with the Manor and the 'United' Stadium. I think the parking and other facilities has had a big impact on our recent attendances - even whilst we were in the hell hole of the BSP.
There's no doubt that IF we climb further up the FL Pyramid our gates will rise accordingly, and will further the need to purchase the Stadium. Championship level and a even a moderately successful team- and i'd imagine we would need the 4th Stand to cope with demand from home and away support.
That sort of base must be of great encouragement to the Clubs' backers and investors. Success breeds success.
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Post by dabigfella on Jan 20, 2011 11:47:26 GMT
I just came across an old chart of our average league crowds since 1960 and the current average is very impressive: Our current average crowd is 7236 which is up 20% from last seasons end of season average (excluding play off). Our current average is the highest since 1997 when we average 7490 and the previous season 7608 both of which we were in old Division 2 (Championship). Other than those two seasons you have to go back to 1987 for higher crowds (8387) when we were in old Div One (Premiership). We have to go back to 1964 for higher League Two (old Div Four) crowds than we have today. The 2008/2009 average crowd was 4879 so the support has grown by 48% in just two years. This shows just what a great job KT & CW have done in such a short space of time. I wonder what crowds we will get when we make it to the League One or the Championship: Our highest League One (old Div 3) average crowds were 9195 (1965), 8231 (1967) and 7677 (1983) all other seasons in Div 3 were lower than the current crowds. In 1968, 1969 & 1970 our Div 2 (Championship) crowds were over 10K with 11543 in 1968 being our highest ever average crowd. Our highest Div 2 average crowd since the Maxwell era was 7608 and we are alreafy close to that. All of the above seems to indicate that the new stadium has encouraged more people to come along so this should continue as we move up the divisions. Where is this chart? Any chance of seeing it myself? |
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Post by Long John Silver on Jan 20, 2011 11:48:06 GMT
All of the above seems to indicate that the new stadium has encouraged more people to come along so this should continue as we move up the divisions. I don't think it's all to do with the new stadium, as we are 1000-1800 up on the averages of the five seasons at Grenoble Road in League 2 before the drop to the BSP: 01/02 ... 6,260 02/03 ... 5,862 03/04 ... 6,296 04/05 ... 5,347 05/06 ... 5,443 I think post Kassam feel good factor has quite a bit to do with the increase since then. If we stay around the play-offs I think this season's average should be about 7,500 and I could see an average of 9,000 if we did ok in League One (maybe even more if we got a safe standing terrace built at the west end!) |
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yellowg
Full Member
Beano!....there's only one Beano!
Posts: 139
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Post by yellowg on Jan 20, 2011 11:56:22 GMT
Not sure it's fair to compare attendances with the Manor and the 'United' Stadium. I think the parking and other facilities has had a big impact on our recent attendances - even whilst we were in the hell hole of the BSP. There's no doubt that IF we climb further up the FL Pyramid our gates will rise accordingly, and will further the need to purchase the Stadium. Championship level and a even a moderately successful team- and i'd imagine we would need the 4th Stand to cope with demand from home and away support. That sort of base must be of great encouragement to the Clubs' backers and investors. Success breeds success. Why isnt it fair?. The idea was right to move out of headington (although I will always miss the manor). The Kassam Stadium is very user friendly and is better for families, however I have always been amazed at how our club has "grown" whilst our football team has gone backwards!!! I remember watching us in the Championship in the early 90's and there were 6 or 7K in the manor on a regular basis. I could imagine if we were playing Notts Forest or Wolves in the Championship now, we would get 12 - 14K no probs. |
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Post by scoob on Jan 20, 2011 12:46:12 GMT
LJS I agree that the current crowds are not all down to the stadium but the figures you give are when the performances at the new stadium were generally poor and we were generally sliding towards the conference. Other factors like Kassam had an influence but the main effect was what was happening on the pitch.
If you compare the current crowds to periods when we were doing well at the Manor even with a promotion season the crowds were generally lower than now and were not much higher even in higher divisions. I dont think there were many sell outs in Div 3&4 and not that many in Div 2. In our promotion season of 95/96 from Div 3 to Div 2 we averaged 5875 with a high of 8585 against Swindon and 7535 for the last game of the season so there would have been plenty of room if more had wanted to come to the Manor.
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Post by slappy on Jan 20, 2011 13:32:01 GMT
Last time we had this discussion, the last of the Manor years had much reduced capacity which needs to be considered.
I reckon there are a combination of factors accounting for increased attendances:-
In order :
- results and position in the league. the momentum of a play-off challenge and winning games gets crowds in.
- stadium and facilities. I think the new stadium attracts more people all other things being equal, it is covered, seats, car parking etc.
- we are not in the 70's 80's and football violence has been smashed.
- promotion to a new division. the optimism of the home crowd is buoyed for a new season to get season tickets, and away crowds higher.
- style of football. Wilder's teams probably more attractive than Atkins.
- ownership. the slide of underinvestment during Kassam's reign put people off.
- familarity of the level of football. mid-table mediocrity at whatever level of football will see crowds drop after a season or two, even if we were playing in the Championship.
- opponents. a few opponents with good away followings would help.
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Post by scoob on Jan 20, 2011 13:32:47 GMT
Here is a scan of the chart that I prepared from the average crowd stats. Attachments:
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Post by Up The Manor on Jan 20, 2011 13:36:04 GMT
Good post,just shows how good we are. But what was wrong with the 80s,I ask,the best years all in.
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Post by Sheik Djibouti on Jan 20, 2011 13:45:43 GMT
Bit before I started going but what happened between 1970 and 1980 to make attendances fall off a cliff?
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Post by scoob on Jan 20, 2011 13:54:25 GMT
Slappy I agree with all of your comments except I don't think the reduced capacity of the Manor had much affect except when we were in Division One and for some big cup games which are not included in these stats anyway. The last time we had average crowds slightly higher than today was when we were promoted to old Div 2 in 1996/1997. The average was 7608 with the highest crowd being the derby v Reading which attracted 9223 which I believe was below capacity at that time. There were several crowds in excess of 8000 but some others around 6400 including the first home game which was our first back in that division.
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Post by hairy on Jan 20, 2011 16:30:54 GMT
In the nineties cant actually remember anyone talking much about attendances, our infatuation with it only started in the conference days.
Dont think our crowds would rise dramatically if we were promoted to the championship, we have a loyal hardcore of 5000 and about a couple of thousand part timers with another few thousand who will turn up for the big games at most 3 or 4 times a year. That explains why their is not much difference over recent years.
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Post by scoob on Jan 20, 2011 17:36:36 GMT
Hairy some of us have been interested in attendances for many years because the bigger the crowd the more money available to drive the club onwards and upwards. That is the only reason I care about it and nothing to do with whether we are bigger or better than anyone else.
You are probably right about not too many talking about it but how many people were you talking to about OUFC in the nineties on the internet or even in the pub? I know that I was not in contact with anywhere near the number of fans compared to the numbers who read these forums. The only news was what the Oxford Mail and Radio Oxford gave us plus the odd rumour to those of us who worked close to the club. The other discussion came down the pub with the mates that also supported the club so probably a couple of dozen. That does not mean that some of us were not interested.
I think you are wrong about out numbers in the Championship but we shall see. Our support is much stronger now than it ever was in the old Division Three and not far off the support that we saw in the old Division Two so I am confident that with the change of stadium we will see much bigger crowds when we get there especially if it has increased capacity for away fans. If you are right though we will always struggle to maintain Championship football for more than a few years.
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Post by chippyyellow on Jan 20, 2011 17:40:45 GMT
Bit before I started going but what happened between 1970 and 1980 to make attendances fall off a cliff? Attendances fell everywhere in the mid to late 70's due to a number of factors including the effect of hooliganism and a poor England team missing out on successive World Cups. Our being relegated from the old Div 2 was a double whammy. |
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Post by hairy on Jan 20, 2011 18:16:31 GMT
Scoob I wasnt having a pop just wondering where the fascination with attendances comes from. Your probably right that the Internet has allowed people with more niche interests to be in contact with each other, this is why things such as attendances or admin staff leaving attract far more attention than they would previously have done. Whether thats a good thing is debatable but an interest in crowd size is harmless enough and I always check attendances after games on BBC digital so am as guilty as anyone else.
The thing that has pleased me the most during our decline was the fact that our attendances didnt drop and that proved how loyal our hardcore fans are, as I like to point out to Reading fans they may have got bigger crowds in the top flight but they never watched them when they were shit.
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Post by peterdevo on Jan 20, 2011 18:21:24 GMT
Good point.
We used to get bigger crowds than Reading years ago when we were both in the same division ie division 3
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Post by Londonroader on Jan 20, 2011 21:21:23 GMT
I was looking through an old programme the other day, Milk cup arsenal Oct 31st 1984.
It says we were averaging 9,950 at home in the league at that stage of the season, we went on to win the league that season anyone know our average over the whole season?
Interestingly there are a few "big" teams who had shocking home averages, with some doing well in the league.
Barnsley 7,262, 5th in the league.
Blackburn 5,946 3rd in the league.
Charlton 5,635 14th.
Cardiff 5,110 21st.
Middlesbrough 5,052 18th.
Fulham 4,972 11th.
That Canon div 2 would be the same as the Championship now.
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Post by scoob on Jan 20, 2011 22:07:26 GMT
LR that is a game that I will never forget for many reasons.
Firstly being crammed into the London Road where you either had to stand with your arms at your side or above your shoulders because there was so little space. I think it was one of the biggest home crowds in all of the time that I have been following the club at just under 14,400.
Then that fantastic goal from Dave Langan who confused Pat Jennings and instantly became a hero by beating the Arsenal. I consider Spurs to be my second team so that was special. I met Pat at a prize giving at half time on the White Hart Lane pitch a few years ago but resisted the temptation to remind him of that errror.
I also remember dodging the bottles being thrown into the London Road by Arsenal "fans" who had left early and walked straight into our part of the ground. (The TVP seem to have learned little in the subsequent 27 years) Then being surrounded by 20 Arsenal fans on the Windmill Road whilst on my own and avoiding eye contact until I got past them.
Thats what I call entertainment.
Our home league average was 10,500 that season and since 1970 that was only beaten by 500 the following season when we were in Division One. The crowd for that game was the largest of the season and has not been beaten at home since because the following season the Manor capacity was reduced when additional seating areas were installed on the Osler Road.
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Post by fatoldsun on Jan 20, 2011 22:20:25 GMT
Some good points. One other to throw in is that in the 90s the club went through a severe financial crisis when Maxwell got found out. We were bouncing around between divisions 2 and 3 (Championship and L1 now) and probably over-achieving on the pitch. But I'm sure the whole Maxwell saga plus the fact we'd dropped out of the top flight with no hope of getting back there anytime soon, turned many people away. We were a club just trying to survive, with the loyal supporters doing all they could to help.
Then Kassam came along and steadied the financial ship, but ripped the heart and soul from the club. This also kept fans away, even when we were doing well and getting promoted. It took desperate action from the loyal supporters to force Kassam to sell up, and since then despite some wobbly moments (mainly Nick Merry's), it feels like the club is quickly regaining its heart and soul. It's once more a club that the people of Oxfordshire and beyond can be proud of, and this coupled with some success and good football on the pitch has brought the attendances back up.
It just proves that success on the pitch is not enough. You need to have the right people running the club.
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