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Post by yellowsubmarine on Jan 12, 2011 20:19:00 GMT
A little while back there were some threads on here regarding your rights when police stop you for no reason at a football match. Didn't pay too much attention to them but seem to remember that you don't have to give the police any details if they are not charging you, is that right?
At Aldershot I was stopped as I left the pub. He asked for my name so I told him my first name. When he asked for my surname I asked why he wanted to know. He replied that I had been drinking and was going to a football match so he wanted all of my details. When I told him that I didn't have to give him any details as drinking and going to a football match is not a crime he replied, "unless you give me your full name, date of birth and address I will make sure you don't get to see the game". He was obviously a w*****r and I didn't want to wind him up so gave him all my details. Looked like he had other names in his notepad...
So what are our rights at football?
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Post by moomooland on Jan 12, 2011 20:26:45 GMT
Anyone that goes to a football match in this country waves goodbye to all their human rights.
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Post by eaststandboy on Jan 12, 2011 20:30:31 GMT
I think that should be reported. The copper obviously intimidated you and forced you into doing something you don't have to.
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Post by junior1 on Jan 12, 2011 20:31:43 GMT
Did you take his number?
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Post by yellowsubmarine on Jan 12, 2011 20:32:43 GMT
I should have got his badge number but didn't think about it at the time. Just wanted to get away without him finding an excuse to nick me
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Post by witastic on Jan 12, 2011 20:37:18 GMT
i got asked my name and i didnt tell him, told him I didnt have to tell him and he got on with it
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Post by yellowken on Jan 12, 2011 21:48:37 GMT
MooMooLand, how right you are
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Post by Ricky Otto on Jan 12, 2011 22:03:02 GMT
A little while back there were some threads on here regarding your rights when police stop you for no reason at a football match. Didn't pay too much attention to them but seem to remember that you don't have to give the police any details if they are not charging you, is that right? At Aldershot I was stopped as I left the pub. He asked for my name so I told him my first name. When he asked for my surname I asked why he wanted to know. He replied that I had been drinking and was going to a football match so he wanted all of my details. When I told him that I didn't have to give him any details as drinking and going to a football match is not a crime he replied, "unless you give me your full name, date of birth and address I will make sure you don't get to see the game". He was obviously a w*****r and I didn't want to wind him up so gave him all my details. Looked like he had other names in his notepad... So what are our rights at football? I hope everyone really sits up and takes notice, because as in this case, nobody thinks its going to happen to them. And its only when it does that they realise what a horrible place this country finds itself in. It is well within your rights to refuse giving details. You are at liberty to take their name rank and number. You are permitted to film them whether they like it or not. They will as ever try to intimidate you on all fronts but they have no rights in reality. I would hope that Thom Airs would see this and see fit to ask why yet again details are being taken of fans who have committed NO CRIME. And whether this behaviour is being sanctioned by the powers that be?
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Post by OxfordUltras on Jan 12, 2011 22:07:57 GMT
Anyone that goes to a football match in this country waves goodbye to all their human rights. I once refused details before, I was walking through a trainstation, was wearing an ultras tee, but up to nothing, just going to the game. Next thing we know is we're being followed by some coppers, get on a bus and we get followed by two unmarked police cars. And for what, going to a game of football? The way football fans are treated is beyond a joke, no one else is subjected to such harrasment for doing something so simple as attending a match.
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Post by HKYellow on Jan 12, 2011 23:43:44 GMT
NEXT TIME give them these details.
First name Ima, Last name Copper or alternatively say First name Peter Colin, surname Plod
Address, McDonalds Farm 999 Letsby Avenue
Telephone Number 01865 841148
;D
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Post by ox4eva on Jan 13, 2011 8:49:31 GMT
If the cop tries to get a little aggresive i suggest you just head but him Give them nothing, if they say its a section 60 then that is purely a search for weapons and nothing else and they have no right to take your name!
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Post by sarge1 on Jan 13, 2011 9:25:39 GMT
A little while back there were some threads on here regarding your rights when police stop you for no reason at a football match. Didn't pay too much attention to them but seem to remember that you don't have to give the police any details if they are not charging you, is that right? At Aldershot I was stopped as I left the pub. He asked for my name so I told him my first name. When he asked for my surname I asked why he wanted to know. He replied that I had been drinking and was going to a football match so he wanted all of my details. When I told him that I didn't have to give him any details as drinking and going to a football match is not a crime he replied, "unless you give me your full name, date of birth and address I will make sure you don't get to see the game". He was obviously a w*****r and I didn't want to wind him up so gave him all my details. Looked like he had other names in his notepad... So what are our rights at football? drop a mail to amanda.jacks@fsf.org.uk or visit www.fsf.org.uk OxVox received had some 'bust cards' with your rights etc on them around rhe time of the Gillingham home game- I presume that OxVox still have them?
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Post by YellowHoods on Jan 13, 2011 9:33:11 GMT
As Otto says, there IS a lesson to be learned here.
Yellow Sub didn't take any notice of the last batch of OTT policing threads after Northampton. presumably because he thought they weren't relevant to him. He has now become subject to police excesses. Assuming he was behaving in an acceptable fashion on leaving the pub, why on earth should a police officer feel he has the right to take details?
Another example of authorities assuming the worst about football fans then tarring us all with the same brush. Know your rights and don't accept this as "part of football".
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Post by sarge1 on Jan 13, 2011 10:21:37 GMT
As Otto says, there IS a lesson to be learned here. Yellow Sub didn't take any notice of the last batch of OTT policing threads after Northampton. presumably because he thought they weren't relevant to him. He has now become subject to police excesses. Assuming he was behaving in an acceptable fashion on leaving the pub, why on earth should a police officer feel he has the right to take details? Another example of authorities assuming the worst about football fans then tarring us all with the same brush. Know your rights and don't accept this as "part of football". DITTO that
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thom
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by thom on Jan 13, 2011 11:06:35 GMT
Ricky Otto,
I have indeed seen this thread. I had a good chat with Amanda from the FSF last week and we will be doing something once the current crop of court cases are finished with.
Yellowsubmarine, I'd be more than happy to hear about what happened at Aldershot as it sounds like something I can build into the piece on football policing. Feel free to drop me an email tairs (at) oxfordmail.co.uk for an off-the-record chat. You can remain anonymous.
Cheers.
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Post by Ricky Otto on Jan 13, 2011 11:36:14 GMT
Thanks Thom.
Delighted to know you're following this up.
I think we've come to expect this from the authorities and so we tend not to defend ourselves as readily as we should. We let the growing creep take hold and assume that any sort of resistance to inappropriate authoritarianism will only see the authorities come down more heavily on us. As in the case above, the police use their extra knowledge combined with the power at their disposal to create a climate of fear.
This poor chap now has his records taken, and will no doubt be put on a list of persons to be concerned about. Over the years they'll identify his picture, add that to the file, and add more pictures of him standing in pubs or at football. They may even capture him swearing at a referee. Then one day he can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, a fight breaks out in a pub which he has chosen to drink at, he gets rounded up, details taken, and bang, they see an easy conviction. In court, out come a whole host of details 'linking him' to football violence and disorder. And they can more easily ge ttheir conviction binding together their stories with colluded statements
I would be very interested to know how many Oxford fans are currently considered to be on a watch list or potential trouble makers relative to our total crowds of about 6500 and relative to the genuine risk list of what I'd assume is probably only about 200.
It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of regulars in both the East and North stand have their details or photos recorded on some level.
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Post by sarge1 on Jan 13, 2011 13:07:07 GMT
Thanks Thom. Delighted to know you're following this up. I think we've come to expect this from the authorities and so we tend not to defend ourselves as readily as we should. We let the growing creep take hold and assume that any sort of resistance to inappropriate authoritarianism will only see the authorities come down more heavily on us. As in the case above, the police use their extra knowledge combined with the power at their disposal to create a climate of fear. This poor chap now has his records taken, and will no doubt be put on a list of persons to be concerned about. Over the years they'll identify his picture, add that to the file, and add more pictures of him standing in pubs or at football. They may even capture him swearing at a referee. Then one day he can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, a fight breaks out in a pub which he has chosen to drink at, he gets rounded up, details taken, and bang, they see an easy conviction. In court, out come a whole host of details 'linking him' to football violence and disorder. And they can more easily ge ttheir conviction binding together their stories with colluded statements I would be very interested to know how many Oxford fans are currently considered to be on a watch list or potential trouble makers relative to our total crowds of about 6500 and relative to the genuine risk list of what I'd assume is probably only about 200. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of regulars in both the East and North stand have their details or photos recorded on some level. more or less what Ricky Otto said
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Post by yellowsubmarine on Jan 13, 2011 22:15:36 GMT
As Otto says, there IS a lesson to be learned here. Yellow Sub didn't take any notice of the last batch of OTT policing threads after Northampton. presumably because he thought they weren't relevant to him. He has now become subject to police excesses. Assuming he was behaving in an acceptable fashion on leaving the pub, why on earth should a police officer feel he has the right to take details? Another example of authorities assuming the worst about football fans then tarring us all with the same brush. Know your rights and don't accept this as "part of football". Exactly, I don't go looking for trouble so don't expect to find trouble, although this is probably a naive view! I saw a few threads but didn't read them as I thought I would never put myself in a position where police would hassle me. I left the pub alone to find a cash machine so it's not like I was being loud / gobby with my mates. The policeman didn't take my details for being loud, aggressive, thuggish, drunk etc, in his own words it was because I had "been drinking and was going to watch a football match". I was 99% sure I didn't have to give him my details but once he started making threats I caved in so I didn't get any trouble. I'll drop Thom an email if it will help but I've said pretty much everything in this thread. But just out of interest, who is Thom and what do you do?!
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Post by shotssteve on Jan 13, 2011 22:18:09 GMT
I would be interested to know if it was TVP or HantsPlod who did the asking if you don't mind. Old Bill are usually quite restrained about that sort of thing at our place, usually just a bit of filming. Never seen anyone have their details taken. This could be the start of a new strategy from them, and if it is, then we need to know.
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Post by YellowHoods on Jan 13, 2011 22:26:55 GMT
I'll drop Thom an email if it will help but I've said pretty much everything in this thread. But just out of interest, who is Thom and what do you do?! He's "Thom Airs" (no idea if that's his real name) who's a football reporter for the Oxford Mail.
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