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Post by seekeroftruth on Jan 6, 2011 15:24:04 GMT
On the thread regarding the lack of published Min's of the meeting between Oxford and the owner, one reply mentioned the Youth Development at the club.
My understanding is that this is overlooked by one of the owners sons.
Now after 5 years what measurement is used by the Chairman/Owner to ascertain whether those overseeing a vital part of the future of the club is being managed properly??
It cannot be based on players coming through as there has not been anyone who has made it into the 1st team in the last few years. It would appear that the only name in the frame would be Woodley and it don't look to promising for him.
Now can we have some answers to who is accountable for what would seem to be a failure regarding Youth Development under 5 years of ownership by WPL.
Young players should be knocking on the door of the first team by now and this is without doubt a very important part of the clubs future so why is the door so quite??
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Jan 6, 2011 15:39:32 GMT
Virtually no player who is currently 16/17 and potentially able to make the grade will be available. Those players will have been snapped up 3/4 years ago by the likes of Reading and Southampton, who at the time were in the Premiership and Championship respectively. We weren't even in the Football League.
Also, don't forget that while Deering was in the youth team and eventually came through that we only got him because he was released by Chelsea at the age of 16. Even he wasn't a complete product of "our" system.
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Post by seekeroftruth on Jan 6, 2011 16:18:10 GMT
What about the time we were in div 2 and had young 14-15 year olds on the books. They would be 19 now.
Are you saying that over the last 5 years we have had no players coming through?? If so wtf has been going on regarding the person overseeing our youth development strategy ?
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 6, 2011 16:27:57 GMT
Also, It is important to note what state the Youth set-up was in and the reputation of the club when IL/Woodstock Partners took over.
The Youth set-up was not in a great state at all so that has had to be rebuilt and the club's reputation under Kassam was hardly a great draw for local young talent to come to the club with Reading, Southampton and the Premier Lg clubs looking in the area. Couple all of this with dropping to the BSP which made it even harder. In addition to the rebuild, there will be a time lag for the younger players to come through.
A positive step for developing younger players has been the re-introduction of the reserves to provide a link between the 1st team and Youth team. Also, with more Income coming into the club from the FL/FA funding maybe younger players with potential that need longer to develop will be given pro contracts to do so (along as we remain profitably obviously).
The big question for me is whether the club has invested (or will be now in the FL) in a scouting structure to cover the local/regional boys leagues on a regular basis as that, imo, is the key starting point. We will never get a player ahead of PL clubs ( and sadly Reading/Southampton with their Academies unless we are very lucky) but we can get the late developers and the best of the rest, certainly until we hopefully push up the leagues.
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Post by Marked Ox on Jan 6, 2011 16:32:51 GMT
What about the time we were in div 2 and had young 14-15 year olds on the books. They would be 19 now. Are you saying that over the last 5 years we have had no players coming through?? If so wtf has been going on regarding the person overseeing our youth development strategy ? Have you forgotten where we were as a club before IL took over and the level of football we were in and the reduction in financing as a result?! The Youth system suffered prior to IL coming in and the club couldn't attract decent senior players under Kassam in the end never mind the best kids locally. |
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Post by seekeroftruth on Jan 6, 2011 16:36:06 GMT
Now you can see why it is important to read the min's of the meeting between IL & Oxvox. One wouldimagine that these are the sort of questions that would have been put to the owner as a strong Youth Development system is as important as owning the ground.
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Post by Eric Read on Jan 6, 2011 18:14:44 GMT
What a sorry state of affairs.
A real inditement of how far we have fallen under our previous two owners. We used to be really well respected for our youth development, and now we don't even compete with the likes of Reading and Southampton for our own local OXFORDSHIRE players!!!
Needs sorting, and needs sorting NOW. In fact it needed sorting 5 years ago rather than blowing the money on fancy team coaches, high wages for over the hill journeymen footballers, and lap dancing clubs!!!!
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Post by The New Matt Murphy on Jan 7, 2011 12:34:11 GMT
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Post by yellowabingdon on Jan 7, 2011 20:55:55 GMT
Im gonna be controversial here, but I dont mean to be.
Lack of youth development at the club is a horrible thing, and something everyone would like to see improved.....however.....youth football is expensive to run.
Id rather see funds invested in a strong first team, which in turn would lead to promotion, which then leads to the growth of the clubs finances and subsequently more funds to invest at youth level.
Like I said, its a shame, but its just a non issue for the club at the moment. Get the first team right and successful and all the other sides of the game will fall in to place.
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Post by witneyoxon on Jan 7, 2011 22:38:16 GMT
Some good points here from Eric and TNMM.
Having been involved with kids football for a good number of years now I share your frustrations with OUFC's inability to scout locally and make use of some of the best coaches. I have recommended a coach who has even done some work for OUFC in the past sometimes taking games at short notice and he received not even so much as a thank you for doing so.
I am now seeing U13's from Oxford and Witney area going on trial at Coventry and being closely monitored in most of the games they play by West Brom and others. Some of these lads have been looked at by OUFC in the past and more recently but the communication (or lack of) is in stark contrast to how these other clubs treat potential triallists. I would love to think that if I or others recommended players that OUFC would take some notice but I know I'm wasting my breath.
I have overlooked these apparent shortcomings as I know that CoE was being run on a shoestring whilst there was no funding from the league but unless there are some drastic changes from the top I cannot see any improvement forthcoming. I hate to say it but whilst this continues all the clubs around us have pretty much the pick of what they want before we do.
Even the after school sports at some of the primary schools in Witney are run by Premier Soccer who are affiliated to Southampton for christ's sake. I am yellow through and through and it really irks me to see these other clubs on our patch taking liberties and OUFC being the poor relation in most of the parents eyes ...
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Post by Bampton Beech Boy on Jan 8, 2011 0:33:38 GMT
Some good points here from Eric and TNMM. Having been involved with kids football for a good number of years now I share your frustrations with OUFC's inability to scout locally and make use of some of the best coaches. I have recommended a coach who has even done some work for OUFC in the past sometimes taking games at short notice and he received not even so much as a thank you for doing so. I am now seeing U13's from Oxford and Witney area going on trial at Coventry and being closely monitored in most of the games they play by West Brom and others. Some of these lads have been looked at by OUFC in the past and more recently but the communication (or lack of) is in stark contrast to how these other clubs treat potential triallists. I would love to think that if I or others recommended players that OUFC would take some notice but I know I'm wasting my breath. I have overlooked these apparent shortcomings as I know that CoE was being run on a shoestring whilst there was no funding from the league but unless there are some drastic changes from the top I cannot see any improvement forthcoming. I hate to say it but whilst this continues all the clubs around us have pretty much the pick of what they want before we do. Even the after school sports at some of the primary schools in Witney are run by Premier Soccer who are affiliated to Southampton for christ's sake. I am yellow through and through and it really irks me to see these other clubs on our patch taking liberties and OUFC being the poor relation in most of the parents eyes ... And the reason for this?...Mark Jones' treatment during Kassams reign lead to him quitting the club, costing OUFC probably tens of thousands in soccer course revenue alone & no doubt cost us young talent that then wnt to Soton. |
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Post by seekeroftruth on Jan 8, 2011 12:49:06 GMT
Some good points here from Eric and TNMM. Having been involved with kids football for a good number of years now I share your frustrations with OUFC's inability to scout locally and make use of some of the best coaches. I have recommended a coach who has even done some work for OUFC in the past sometimes taking games at short notice and he received not even so much as a thank you for doing so. I am now seeing U13's from Oxford and Witney area going on trial at Coventry and being closely monitored in most of the games they play by West Brom and others. Some of these lads have been looked at by OUFC in the past and more recently but the communication (or lack of) is in stark contrast to how these other clubs treat potential triallists. I would love to think that if I or others recommended players that OUFC would take some notice but I know I'm wasting my breath. I have overlooked these apparent shortcomings as I know that CoE was being run on a shoestring whilst there was no funding from the league but unless there are some drastic changes from the top I cannot see any improvement forthcoming. I hate to say it but whilst this continues all the clubs around us have pretty much the pick of what they want before we do. Even the after school sports at some of the primary schools in Witney are run by Premier Soccer who are affiliated to Southampton for christ's sake. I am yellow through and through and it really irks me to see these other clubs on our patch taking liberties and OUFC being the poor relation in most of the parents eyes ... quote] That was well over 5 years ago. There is no excuse for the lack of young players coming through the system. Its bad management from the owner down. |
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Post by m on Jan 8, 2011 22:35:45 GMT
0/10
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Post by topfanoufc on Jan 9, 2011 9:23:31 GMT
Several points to make here.
Firstly, under Kassam the club was not allowed to employ scouts. Therefore it becomes pretty hard to find the best kids. Unfortunately, with the best kids being picked up at 8 or 9 it takes a long time for this to change and to get players through the system ready for senior football.
Secondly, WPL financed the whole youth development structure for several years when we lost the Football League grant. This cost a significant amount of money. I think this shows their commitment to this programme as it would have been very easy to scrap it straight away.
These points are history. Looking forward there are several things that any successful Youth Development programme needs to have:
Scouts - there is a scouting system in place and the club gets out most weekends to see players across the region. I would like to think that the club does take recommendations seriously and follows up on them, however I would agree that a more systematic approach needs to be put in place to make sure that nobody slips through the net.
Coaches - you need to be at least a Level 3 coach (UEFA B) to work in a Centre of Excellence and so there is at least one of these per age group. For some of the older age groups (eg U16s), the coaches are Level 4 (A-license). I think this is about the same as other similar clubs in the region.
Facilities - this is the area which lets us down. I have been to the likes of Reading and West Brom and they have their own indoor astroturf facilities next door to the ground. This means that they are not trying to find pitches around the county to use as and when they are free. This would make a massive difference to the quality (and duration) of the sessions that are provided to the players (difficult to coach when it is freezing and pissing down with rain). Matches are played at Oxford School which is not the best of venues (bit of an understatement that). The quality of the facilities is the biggest issue for me - difficult to attract players vs Soton, Reading, etc. when they turn up at Oxford School to play a trial game.
So while the Youth Development is not perfect and there are certainly things to improve on, I think people are perhaps being unrealistic about how many players it should be bringing through. It would be interesting to compare our conversion ratio with the likes of Swindon, Cheltenham, Wycombe, Northampton, etc. We regularly beat all of these teams across all the age ranges. This tells me that the quality of the players in our system is at least as good as those in similar clubs at a similar level.
I think the conversion rate generally of acadamies is not great. You would like to think you might get one player per year into the first team squad and perhaps this should be the target. I know that there are a number of good players in the U16s, U15s (don't want to mention specific names) and the Youth Team that are generally reckoned as having a decent chance of breaking through. However this could take another 3-4 years before they are ready. Having the reserve team back in place is an essential step on the way to getting to the first team.
Sorry if this has been a bit of a rambling post.
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Post by gilly44 on Jan 9, 2011 9:40:30 GMT
No apology necessary and certainly not rambling, with a child in the Under 9`s at Oxford United I recognise and agree with your points of view.
Steve Gilmore.
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Post by Gavin Archery on Jan 9, 2011 9:55:36 GMT
I'm sure we don't have a youth set up at the club in order to develop local lads for the first team. I did read somewhere that the return to the league meant that we got a grant for youth development and perhaps that in itself perpetuates why we have a youth set up. I am therefore not convinced we have a youth programme to develop first team players of the future. :-)
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Post by oufc1975 on Jan 10, 2011 10:12:31 GMT
Marked Ox makes a point about the state of the youth team under Kassam. I would point to Ricketts, Whitehead, Hackett. " Premiership players and a championship player. Simon King, Gillingham. If the reputation was poor and they were still produced, what must the reputation be like now. We have absolutely nothing coming through and under the last 5 years we have the worst youth team production line we have ever seen even going back to the southern league days, I do not know who oversees it but no one would be my guess!
Really it is a disgrace and the club will just buy time on this giving excuses but the honest answer is we have no infastructure for it, have not invested in it and have run it negligently and we are reaping the rewards. Whoever runs it is certainly not leaving and breathing it!!
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Post by charliesghost on Jan 10, 2011 16:33:26 GMT
On the thread regarding the lack of published Min's of the meeting between Oxford and the owner, one reply mentioned the Youth Development at the club. My understanding is that this is overlooked by one of the owners sons. Now after 5 years what measurement is used by the Chairman/Owner to ascertain whether those overseeing a vital part of the future of the club is being managed properly?? It cannot be based on players coming through as there has not been anyone who has made it into the 1st team in the last few years. It would appear that the only name in the frame would be Woodley and it don't look to promising for him. Now can we have some answers to who is accountable for what would seem to be a failure regarding Youth Development under 5 years of ownership by WPL. Young players should be knocking on the door of the first team by now and this is without doubt a very important part of the clubs future so why is the door so quite?? This a highly complex subject, and there are no easy answers. Now we are back in the League, we finally get a proper grant for YTS work again, rather than relying on the Lenagans funding it out of their pocket. But it remains an expensive part of our overall budget, so needs to work, or becomes a drag on the club's finances. The problem is that when we were developing loads of League-standard players, we had been not just a League club, but a top 40 League club for fifteen years or so (1984-1999). That is a generation of local parents who had become used to the idea that their brilliant son, capable of League football, would only have to go 20 mins down the road to realise his dreams and become the next Kevin Brock/ Joey Beauchamp/ Dean Whitehead. When we dropped down to the bottom tier, and thence out of the League altogether, that all changed. It would have been irresponsible parenting to entrust Josh McEachern's future to a Conference youth set-up! So, really, I do not believe that the YTS is likely to deliver anything significant (unless by great happy chance) for a little while to come. But. And it is a big but. You cannot just close these things down, and then re-open them on a whim. Like everything, getting the right people/ facilities/ structures in place takes time. So, my conclusion is that if the Lenagans, as I believe, want us eventually to be a sustainable Championship club they are right to keep plugging away on the YTS side in the meantime. On top of which, it certainly has an impact on community relations, which is not to be sniffed at. |
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Post by witneyellow on Jan 10, 2011 22:33:55 GMT
As someone who has coached in kids' football for last 4 years and with a daughter in the Girls' CofE and another on the Football and Education course linked with Oxford Academy I hope I can add something to this. Clearly there some form of scouting going on again now as my daughter's team has just taken in a triallist, who was recommended to Richard Blackmore having been seen playing mixed football in the local boys' league at U11. While producing the next England Ladies' players won't help the first team she was found in a boys' team so clearly somebody is watching out there. As an aside 2 of the girls in the CofE have been invited to a stage 2 England selection camp - well done to them! Clearly catching them young is a key point and over the last couple of years unless you were a total diehard U's fan, would you rather your son trained with a Premiership/Championship outfit with their own onsite astro in Reading or for a non-league outfit on a windblown school playing field (unless it's raining!)? A previous poster has already touched on the prevalence of Premier Soccer (aka Southampton) locally and the historical reasons for this. A key area to be looked at has to be training facilities, both first team and youth. The girls' CofE play at Chesterton where the first team train and coupled with the gym at the golf course opposite it's not a bad set up for this level. The YTS type scholars are currently housed in a large Portacabin type building round the back of the Mini factory with a few classrooms, a small gym, changing rooms and kit store all lumped in and with use of pitches behind (weather permitting!). The OxVox minutes suggest that with funding from the FL and other sources, this set up is actually more than covering its cost and is helping to subsidise CofE etc. As some on here will know my "real" team is Watford and I'm exiled here and watch Oxford as my local team. Watford have invested in links with a local school with Academy status (Harefield Academy - Google it! or see www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/12/watford_offer_a_glimpse_of_the.html?page=166) where their scholars receive education and coaching (twice as much as a normal YTS Type setup as they're already on site so there are no travel problems). Despite nearly going under several times recently, Watford now put 20% of their turnover into the Academy. Last Saturday there were 7 home grown players in the starting 11! Investment now will take years to come through but must be an integral part of becoming an economically sustainable community based club. |
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Post by Godders on Jan 11, 2011 13:18:05 GMT
I always find youth development very intangible because the outcome is only as good as the players who're coming through and let's not be overly critical of our own club - this country is not producing players of a high enough calibre from the top down. The days when United won the title with a team built largely through players who came through the youth system are long since gone and we rarely see top quality English youngsters coming through in to top flight teams. Youth development is a difficult one for us. Do we invest in the hope that we can find and develop the players of the future who will save us splashing out on new players? Or do we save the money and use to invest in our senior squad? You really need a glassball to work that one out. As a (new) coach myself, what does alarm me is that I've seen some resentment towards OUFC at a youth level due to the way the club have handled themselves during summer coaching schemes in the past and this is something which needs to change. The club need to be engaging with local youth clubs and vice-versa. This also requires the involvement of the OFA. Separate plug: I've been blogging about my adventures as a youth footie coach here; footballcoaching.wordpress.com/. It'd be an interesting read for anyone thinking of getting in to coaching. |
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