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Post by Cardiff Yellow on Dec 2, 2010 20:05:04 GMT
No, Firoz Kassam was our best ever chairman.
Of course KT is the best...he's the best in the country!
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teessideOX
New Member
It's grim up north!
Posts: 36
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Post by teessideOX on Dec 4, 2010 22:24:04 GMT
Vic Couling. Without him we'd still (probably) be Headington United knocking around in the Isthmian/Southern League as a bunch of part-timers. Spot on Boris. Couling achieved so much, had vision, determination and a genuine love for the club. Kelvin Thomas? not even close! Regards J
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Post by dabigfella on Dec 4, 2010 22:31:22 GMT
Bob Maxwell was the best chairman we've ever had and ever likely to have if you are evaluating it on a pure chairmanship of a football club basis. Oxford United were going nowhere until his forsight appoints a certain Jim Smith. We had promotion after promotion, were never off the back pages and he was everywhere - papers, TV, radio, landing helipcopters on the pitch, in the London Road, in the dug out, leading the celebrations at the Town hall. I remember after one of our famous cup wins he was carried shoulder high on the pitch. Smith and the players were probably back in the sanctuary of the dressing room but he was lapping it up. He was full value and was a typical old style chairman with the roller, big cigars and booming voice. The manager and players of course were the real force behind our emergence but he raised the profile of this club no end and played a massive part in the glory days. KT's much more, if you like, boring. Nothing wrong with that at all and he's done a sterling job, a great job, but for sheer entertainment, bravado and the unexpected Maxwell will never be equalled. Couldn't have put it better myself!! ;D
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Post by one trick Raponi on Dec 5, 2010 1:08:19 GMT
I take boris's point about Vic Couling, but that was way before my time ;D
KT is the best we've had in my time watching the club. Hands on, down to earth, so hard working, PR savvy, communicates with the fans, has a business brain. He's a class act.
We're so lucky to have him here and long may that continue.
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Post by scoob on Dec 5, 2010 1:34:00 GMT
Obviously Maxwell gave us the best times but was he really the best Chairman? I think he was close to being but he had the luxury of being able to provide lots of cash when it was needed but he did employ that money very effectively when others have not. I don't think he really had the club's best interests at heart. The Club was a great publicity machine for him and was a toy that helped him massage his huge ego. The TVR fiasco was really driven by his frustration at no being able to motivate the council to find a home that could sustain the club at the upper levels of the game.
I feel that KT could become our best ever Chairman (OK he is Chief Exec really but he seems to have a massive say in the shaping of the club's future) and is very close to that but we are judging all of the others on their whole tenure not just two years. He has so far managed to achieve success without needing cash from outside and that is a major achievement in itself. He has also fostered a great deal of goodwill and cares about the fans. If, in a few years, the club is continuing to progress as it has and if he has balanced the books then he will have earned the right to the crown.
For now I will defer to Boris' deeper knowledge on the subject and accept that his nominee is almost certainly the best as I know very little about the early days of Oxford United (Pre 1980).
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Post by ekon on Dec 6, 2010 17:07:19 GMT
tricky ...having supported OUFC since 1964..& some good points about previous Chairmen made by earlier posters. What I do know is that KT seems to be a very sound "hand on the tiller" in these somewhat different times.
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Post by Dichio on Dec 7, 2010 19:50:47 GMT
Wonder what would have happened had Maxwell not shafted Jim Smith over his new contract and he had stayed with us... Jim Smith would have been a wembley winner.
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Post by Nick Merry's Socks on Dec 8, 2010 12:16:54 GMT
Kelvin leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to PR and marketing in my view. He has done a great turnaround job since rejoining but the clubs marketing and commercial departments still need improvement but they are better than recent years (but that's not hard!). He is very happy to revel in the limelight but iften goes missing when times are tough. He was deadly silent when we went on a six game losing run but then came back to the front when we beat Chesterfield.
Listening to his handling of criticism i do sometimes wonder if he really takes on board fans concerns. I fear he holds the fans with a little bit of contempt. Perhaps rightfully so considering some of the ridiculous abuse that has been banded around in recent weeks. But it is a worry trait if indeed my observation is accurate.
But overall I agree Kelvin has done a great job in turning around the club's fortunes and we should all be delighted that 2 years after his arrival we are back in the football league. Quite a remarkable achievement when you consider what a mess he inherited. But there are still things he could improve and lets hope he does. It must be difficult for him to work under an owner who openly admits there is no more money to invest, and also to run a club with no assets and a stadium owned by a person that will never make life easy.
So best chairman ever? No not by a long shot Mr Couling is a good shout. Best chairman in recent years? Definitely...but there's a lot more work to do and things could be run better even now.
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Post by scoob on Dec 8, 2010 14:09:03 GMT
Nick remind me when that six game losing run happened please.
I think that one of KTs strengths is that he seems to be pretty level headed and does not have jerky knees like a small minority of our fans. He regularly attends Oxvox open meetings and is happy to answer questions. He knows how to word those answers in a clever manner but comes across as pretty honest.
Progress may be a little slow for you but the club has a very small full time backroom staff but did take on a new ticket marketing person recently so that is another step forward.
He did mention that he was going to set up some Focus Groups at the last Fans Forum. Does anyone know if this happened? If it has I hope that the people invited to take part are from a cross section of the fan base and are not just "yes" people but give an honest assessment of the fans feelings.
He has been in place for just over two years but is expected to put right all of the issues that took 20+ years to take effect. For example in 1998 the club had 19 Admin and Marketing staff and I believe that they now have little over half that number.
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Post by slappy on Dec 8, 2010 14:58:39 GMT
I think Kelvin is doing a great job. What could be done better is communication. The consensus appears to be that Wilder could do with some media training too. We hear about signings or loans going out from other clubs first, followed later by our own club. The pitch covers issue was all quiet for quite a few days. Good to see a hearty thank you afterwards on both the BBC and club site to groundstaff and Oxford Marquees. I don't get the 'personal emails' from the club, even though I signed up in the ticketing options. I emailed in with an idea to promote a weekend when no Premiership / Championship games were on. It was supposedly 'passed on', but I never heard anymore and nothing happened that I know of. Matters like the club accounts being filed at the last minute, hearing nothing from the Lenagans from one year to the next should also be improved.
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Post by archiewhite on Dec 8, 2010 19:37:50 GMT
Kelvin leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to PR and marketing in my view. He has done a great turnaround job since rejoining but the clubs marketing and commercial departments still need improvement but they are better than recent years (but that's not hard!). Not sure that I agree. I think that one of KT's strengths is in PR and marketing and things have hugely improved since he took things on. Agree that things could be improved but the chnage since he took over is significant and I would be more concerned of a club much higher up going for him.
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Post by charliesghost on Dec 10, 2010 11:00:43 GMT
Kelvin leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to PR and marketing in my view. He has done a great turnaround job since rejoining but the clubs marketing and commercial departments still need improvement but they are better than recent years (but that's not hard!). Not sure that I agree. I think that one of KT's strengths is in PR and marketing and things have hugely improved since he took things on. Agree that things could be improved but the chnage since he took over is significant and I would be more concerned of a club much higher up going for him. totally agree. Kelvin is a natural communicator, and generally manages to strike the right note. And his positivity is useful commercially - somehow, despite still being in one of our worst playing positions in half a century, the general perception around the county is that things are "on the up". Whereas at times under Kassam when we were doing better than this on the pitch, the atmosphere was still dreadfully negative. The club is starting to utilise and build on its database, clearly has better relations with local firms. These issues might be boring, but are the nuts and bolts which - over the course of the season - are the difference between showing a bit of a profit or a bit of a loss. Crucial, in other words. As I have said elsewhere, I am a little worried about his attitude to Wilder. It's good for the Chief Exec and manager to have a positive relationship. But it is really the Chief Exec's job to set the standards and targets for his manager, and then to judge progress against those metrics. We are lower-mid table, getting on for halfway through the season, and that is not "on target". Forget what happened last year. That is done and dusted long ago. Now is for now, and the immediate future. And we MUST be progressing on the pitch to fulfil our potential. The last month or two we have performed poorly - and significantly worse than we were at the start of the season. This without a huge backlog of injuries and suspensions (about average). So Kelvin needs to be demanding better of Wilder, and helping Wilder get to grips with what has gone wrong (muddled tactics; muddled squad shuffling leading to demoralisation; poor transfer market activity). And if Wilder cannot get his head around the big issues, and change things for the better, then Kelvin will need to fire him at the end of the season. Do they have the kind relationship that will result in issues being sorted out? Not sure they do.
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Post by Brahma Bull on Dec 10, 2010 11:17:22 GMT
As I have said elsewhere, I am a little worried about his attitude to Wilder. It's good for the Chief Exec and manager to have a positive relationship. But it is really the Chief Exec's job to set the standards and targets for his manager, and then to judge progress against those metrics. We are lower-mid table, getting on for halfway through the season, and that is not "on target". Forget what happened last year. That is done and dusted long ago. Now is for now, and the immediate future. And we MUST be progressing on the pitch to fulfil our potential. And if Wilder cannot get his head around the big issues, and change things for the better, then Kelvin will need to fire him at the end of the season. I do agree that we are a progressive football club which should be not hanging around in League 2 for too long but we spent four years in Non League. Kelvin has always been careful when talking about playing targets, even in the Conference the target wasn't publicly the title. The targets were to be in and around the play-offs. Likewise this season, he has never talked openly about targets and isn't on record demanding a top seven finish. Your suggestion that mid-table is below target is simply not true because you don't know what the target is. Supporters set targets and Kelvin and Wilder would have set targets but those haven't been disclosed in the public arena. We shouldn't forget what has happened in the last few years either. Wilder took over when we were relegation fodder, he turned that season around from 19th and took us to a last day game against Northwich. The following season he delivered promotion. At which point will you accept we won't keep going up season after season? It appears you are demanding back-to-back promotions or at the very least a play-off challenge otherwise Wilder should be given the boot.
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Post by charliesghost on Dec 10, 2010 12:57:33 GMT
As I have said elsewhere, I am a little worried about his attitude to Wilder. It's good for the Chief Exec and manager to have a positive relationship. But it is really the Chief Exec's job to set the standards and targets for his manager, and then to judge progress against those metrics. We are lower-mid table, getting on for halfway through the season, and that is not "on target". Forget what happened last year. That is done and dusted long ago. Now is for now, and the immediate future. And we MUST be progressing on the pitch to fulfil our potential. And if Wilder cannot get his head around the big issues, and change things for the better, then Kelvin will need to fire him at the end of the season. I do agree that we are a progressive football club which should be not hanging around in League 2 for too long but we spent four years in Non League. Kelvin has always been careful when talking about playing targets, even in the Conference the target wasn't publicly the title. The targets were to be in and around the play-offs. Likewise this season, he has never talked openly about targets and isn't on record demanding a top seven finish. Your suggestion that mid-table is below target is simply not true because you don't know what the target is. Supporters set targets and Kelvin and Wilder would have set targets but those haven't been disclosed in the public arena. We shouldn't forget what has happened in the last few years either. Wilder took over when we were relegation fodder, he turned that season around from 19th and took us to a last day game against Northwich. The following season he delivered promotion. At which point will you accept we won't keep going up season after season? It appears you are demanding back-to-back promotions or at the very least a play-off challenge otherwise Wilder should be given the boot. Well, I do more or less know the target, actually. And it's not a target set by Kelvin, but by the Board as a whole, and it is one that Wilder has referred to obliquely as well. And as I understand it, it is NOT lower mid-table. In fact, it IS precisely, in your words, to "challenge for the play-offs". Not to "get promoted" - as you twist my words - but to challenge; to demonstrate that we are properly competitive at this level. Am I suggesting that if we finish 9th, rather than a target 7th, that constitutes failure of a kind which demands sacking? No. But it will still be mildly disappointing to the Board, who feel that the budget they have afforded to Wilder constitutes one competitive in the upper reaches of League 2. My question is simply whether: a) Wilder is capable of putting his mistakes right. This is a question of skill, but more pertinently of temperament. b) Kelvin has the kind of constructively critical relationship with him that would enable him in the first place to have some honest discussions about shortcomings and how to put them right and second, if the shortcomings were not sufficiently addressed, the toughness to fire a mate in the interests of the club. Sadly, I suspect that the answers to those questions are 'no' and 'yes'. Which is sad for both Wilder and the club, as I also suspect that he will be allowed to carry on making the same old mistakes (vapid squad shuffling; muddled, inflexible tactical thinking; rude to fans) until eventually patience runs out/ his manic intensity leads to a dressing room implosion. The one really good thing that Wilder has/ does is an important one. He puts out teams that really try. We can all remember all too well what it's like to watch a side where half the players aren't putting in the effort. But, as we're seeing, even at this level that ain't enough. You need just a touch of 'cleverness', and a small touch of class in the final third. Is it a coincidence that we have not a single player who can reliably deliver a decent set piece? Or one whom can cross? Or, until Maclean, a striker who can consistently hold the ball up under pressure? These are all basic requirements in the League, and Wilder was given the budget to get these players in. Instead of which, we splashed out on a total luxury player like Craddock, and brought in a winger (Cole) who hasn't been given a chance (for whatever reason). I hope to high heaven that the last two months have given Wilder the wake-up call, and dented his ego sufficiently to allow him to make the calm, considered judgements required to turn us from strugglers to contenders (the difference between 7th and 15th, say). But I'm not holding my breath, after hearing his last two interviews...
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Post by Sheik Djibouti on Dec 10, 2010 14:07:45 GMT
In some respects the very fact that we gained promotion through the playoff route has somewhat masked the shortcomings of both manager, team and (to a lesser extent) chairman.
Yes it was a fantastic achievement and the best day out many Oxford fans have ever had . . .a real high. But it was simply about who performed better on the day and it happened to be us. The euphoria created by a single result had temporarily glossed over a few issues that were already apparent last season.
I have to say I wasn't entirely surprised when the tinkering and proliferation of loan signings happened again this season, with the net result being a series of far from satisfactory performances.
Both Wilder AND Thomas are very inexperienced when it comes to managing a team and a football club respectively (although far more experienced than just about everyone who ever posts on here). You would like to see both learning from their respective mistakes and also a clear indication that they are all pulling together in the same direction and work as a team rather than a collective of single-minded individuals.
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eran
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by eran on Dec 10, 2010 14:16:48 GMT
I like reading posts by charliesghost because he seems to speak with much clarity and does'nt appear to let emotions cloud his judgement.
We can only hope that Mr Wilder will prove his doubters wrong and in this respect I for one will be delighted. However, one more manic outburst against the fans will do it for me though and I speak as someone who has only missed five games home or away (excluding friendlies) during the last four years.
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Post by Tony W on Dec 10, 2010 14:23:19 GMT
Both Wilder AND Thomas are very inexperienced when it comes to managing a team and a football club respectively (although far more experienced than just about everyone who ever posts on here). You would like to see both learning from their respective mistakes and also a clear indication that they are all pulling together in the same direction and work as a team rather than a collective of single-minded individuals. I'd like to think, though, that this is happening at the moment. Wilder's strategy at the beginning of the season was clearly put together a young, hungry squad full of the best non-league players and a few inexperienced pros who hadn't quite made the grade further up the pyramid. They flew out of the gate - didn't get the results their performances deserved and then started to flag. By the time of the Bradford/Torquay/Burton games, it was clear that while there was definitely ability in the squad, we were desperately lacking in league experience and leadership. Strategy wasn't working. So KT & CW moved to correct that mistake by bringing in Wotton, Futcher & MacLean. And there are signs of recovery right now. We'll see how it goes. Fact is, Wilder has never managed at this level before. But getting us out of the hell of non-league entitles him, in my opinion, to a bit of slack. A bit of leeway to learn on the job. If he shows no signs of doing this by the end of the season - fine, then there's a difficult decision to be made. But until then, the guy has earned some support. And I still don't care one little bit about how our manager deals with the press. Never seen any correlation between how good a job a manager does in the pressroom, and how their teams perform on the pitch. Most lower league managers talk gibberish most of the time. Some do in the Premiership. Shouldn't really be something anyone worries about.....
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Post by Long John Silver on Dec 10, 2010 14:33:15 GMT
And I still don't care one little bit about how our manager deals with the press. Never seen any correlation between how good a job a manager does in the pressroom, and how their teams perform on the pitch. Most lower league managers talk gibberish most of the time. Some do in the Premiership. Shouldn't really be something anyone worries about..... So surely following that line, a manager certainly shouldn't care about the gibberish spouted by some supporters, as fans talking gibberish has far less effect on performance than any spouted by a manager?
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Post by charliesghost on Dec 10, 2010 15:41:42 GMT
Both Wilder AND Thomas are very inexperienced when it comes to managing a team and a football club respectively (although far more experienced than just about everyone who ever posts on here). You would like to see both learning from their respective mistakes and also a clear indication that they are all pulling together in the same direction and work as a team rather than a collective of single-minded individuals. I'd like to think, though, that this is happening at the moment. Wilder's strategy at the beginning of the season was clearly put together a young, hungry squad full of the best non-league players and a few inexperienced pros who hadn't quite made the grade further up the pyramid. They flew out of the gate - didn't get the results their performances deserved and then started to flag. By the time of the Bradford/Torquay/Burton games, it was clear that while there was definitely ability in the squad, we were desperately lacking in league experience and leadership. Strategy wasn't working. So KT & CW moved to correct that mistake by bringing in Wotton, Futcher & MacLean. And there are signs of recovery right now. We'll see how it goes. Fact is, Wilder has never managed at this level before. But getting us out of the hell of non-league entitles him, in my opinion, to a bit of slack. A bit of leeway to learn on the job. If he shows no signs of doing this by the end of the season - fine, then there's a difficult decision to be made. But until then, the guy has earned some support. And I still don't care one little bit about how our manager deals with the press. Never seen any correlation between how good a job a manager does in the pressroom, and how their teams perform on the pitch. Most lower league managers talk gibberish most of the time. Some do in the Premiership. Shouldn't really be something anyone worries about..... Total nonsense. Garbage. Crap. Tell me when Wenger slated his own fans (and my God, he could have every excuse to?). And Fergie? Oh yeah, he slates Man U fans all the time (not). Harry Redknapp? Nope. And you say there's no correlation between slagging off your fans and success? Bonkers. I've heard each and every of the sides mentioned above booed off this season! And they're top of the bloody Premiership, not going through five match losing streaks in League 2!! Get real. Losing your temper and your control on a regular basis in public has every correlation with bad performance, in almost every form of management. It denotes a lack of real inner belief, a lack of ability to manage yourself and an inability to see the big picture. Ok in a performer - not in a manager. That's not to say that no top manager ever loses his temper. They do - but to a useful end, often (as with Ferguson) calibrated carefully in advance.
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Post by Tony W on Dec 10, 2010 16:18:00 GMT
Total nonsense. Garbage. Crap. Tell me when Wenger slated his own fans (and my God, he could have every excuse to?). And Fergie? Oh yeah, he slates Man U fans all the time (not). Harry Redknapp? Nope. And you say there's no correlation between slagging off your fans and success? Bonkers. I've heard each and every of the sides mentioned above booed off this season! And they're top of the bloody Premiership, not going through five match losing streaks in League 2!! Get real. Losing your temper and your control on a regular basis in public has every correlation with bad performance, in almost every form of management. It denotes a lack of real inner belief, a lack of ability to manage yourself and an inability to see the big picture. Ok in a performer - not in a manager. That's not to say that no top manager ever loses his temper. They do - but to a useful end, often (as with Ferguson) calibrated carefully in advance. Rather odd logic there, Charlie. Nothing you have said proves any causality between talking to the press & performance on the pitch. I've not heard Avram Grant, Mick McCarthy or Roberto Martinez saying anything bad about their fans either - despite some extraordinary provocation in the former's case. Mick may have lost it a couple of times regarding tackles but the other two are models of self-control. And it's not transferring itself into on-pitch excellence. Ian Holloway talks absolute gibberish to the press all the time, has lost it on a number of occasions and yet is doing an extraordinary job. And anyways - all that is talking about the Premiership - which isn't hugely relevant to the discussion. There, we're talking about a bunch of managers who've had a lot of time to hone their media skills - whether as high profile players or managers. It's a bit more rough & ready down in League Two. So if Wilder needs to rant & rave post-match about whatever he wants - it doesn't bother me. He could launch into a 20 minute diatribe about what a tw*t the guy in KK143 was, and I wouldn't care less as long as the team was properly prepared and motivated for the next game. But then I'm naturally going to downplay the importance of media more than you aren't I!
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