Right, let's get the defence sorted

[zeus]

To appease those who don’t understand rational debate, can I first say that I’m full of admiration for the turnaround in fortunes following a bad run and some easy-on-the-eye football.
However, our inability to defend at set-pieces and corners is, frankly, ridiculous. Not long ago we’d conceded more headed goals than any other side in the country and I’m sure that’s still the case.
So what can be done?
It would seem to me that whether we are marking zonally or players, the system isn’t working. I suspect we man mark rather than zonal, so let’s try the other option.
Sadly, I am also beginning to wonder about the effectiveness of Andy Melville. He is the defensive coach. We were very dodgy in the air in the second of half of last season and the trend has continued.
It would be a dreadful shame if we managed to do the difficult things admirably (some of our approach play is superb) only to miss out on the playoffs because we cannot do the absolute basics.

[Yellowbrains]

It's concerning that this is still a problem, we have been weak at defending set-pieces for a long time and this must have been identified by the coaching staff as a problem so why are we still so bad at this? I can't believe they haven't worked on it in training.

[zeus]

Worley to blame for both goals at Northampton

He lets his man get up for the first goal and is out of position for the second. Watch Wright scream at him for going walkabout in the aftermath

Worley let his man get goalside for Bradford's goal and was beaten in the air for the Aldershot goal

The kid has potential but he's costing us. Sangare has to come in

[Long Live Clarkey]

Jan 23, 2011 15:38:18 GMT zeus said:

Worley to blame for both goals at Northampton

He lets his man get up for the first goal and is out of position for the second. Watch Wright scream at him for going walkabout in the aftermath

Worley let his man get goalside for Bradford's goal and was beaten in the air for the Aldershot goal

The kid has potential but he's costing us. Sangare has to come in

No he wasn't. Clist was beaten by Gutteridge charging in at the far post, and Batt failed to stop the cross. I think you might be looking for Worley's faults a little bit, I could give you a fair list of Wright's costly mistakes this season.

[zeus]

doesn't worley miss the header at the near post v aldershot? i'm sure he does if memory serves

i'm not trying to find fault with worley at all. in my opinion, he's just not good enough.

as for wright, he has made mistakes, but the difference between the two is that wright is proven, tried and trusted.

[Long Live Clarkey]

Jan 23, 2011 15:46:37 GMT zeus said:

doesn't worley miss the header at the near post v aldershot? i'm sure he does if memory serves

i'm not trying to find fault with worley at all. in my opinion, he's just not good enough.

as for wright, he has made mistakes, but the difference between the two is that wright is proven, tried and trusted.

The ball's nowhere near Worley for that goal.

You've criticised him a few times, including after Bradford if I remember rightly where you said he isn't good enough in the air, which just isn't true. I agree Worley has problems, but he's been vitally important for us several times this season, just as Wright has. Wright is only a few months more tried and trusted than Worley, it's not fair to act as though he's an experienced head with years behind him, particularly for us, because he isn't. In fact, Wright has really struggled in the air this season, if you consider our problem to be an aerial one then Worley isn't the one to criticise.

Worley has two main flaws - distribution, which hasn't actually cost us so far, and not getting the ball clear quickly enough, which has, but only about as much as Wright's mistakes. I don't think the fault lies with our centre backs for our defending, and certainly changing them around is just going to unsettle them.

[zeus]

fair enough. we'll agree to disagree

but i bet sangare replaces worley for tuesday

[zeus]

moving back to the original point long live, if you don't want to change personnel, what can we do to cut out these headed goals?

i don't think we can blame the full backs because we don't see cross after cross thrown into our area, not more than other sides at this level anyway

['Beav']

TBH I think the problem is with Batt as much was Worley.



Batt imo was poor.

He woudl take on a player but had NO end product.


Whereas with Purkiss - if you can get him in the right place - you can pretty much get a good cross into the box!

Not only that - Purkiss is probably a better defender so maybe not all the crosses would make it into the box in the first place and Worley wouldn't need to cover and be out of position so he could be there to head it away.


Worley wasn't at fault for either goals yesterday IMO.

Clarke however I would say should have came to get both.

Its his 6yard box. Everything put in there should be his!

[Long Live Clarkey]

The main problem doesn't seem to be crosses in general, I think if you take the amount of crosses we've conceded from open play this season, it'd look pretty normal. The main problem the way I see it is corners, corner after corner looks like going in and very often they do. That's pretty worrying, several times Beano has been relied on to save us.

All I can really suggest is that's something to work on in training. Perhaps Heslop's absence (he's very good in the air) has cost us, or perhaps it's just a case of not fiddling around with the defence for a game or two more. Most defences have to play together for a few games again, even if they've been a brilliant partnership before, before they're back at the their best. Look at Ferdinand and Vidic in the premiership this season.

And Beav, that's not strictly true either, although it might be here, but if the ball is right at the near or far post, it's very difficult for the keeper to get the ball without being exposed. As I said, I haven't seen either, but if the balls are at the near or far post then it's very harsh to blame him (particularly if there's a player blocking him on the goalline.

[rollsy89]

Worley's man scored the first, so how was he not at fault?
He was dragged out of position to cover Batt for the second. And McKenzie had a free header in between Wright and Tonkin 7yards out. So you have to look at them two for that.

I do like Worley, But, our defence are conceding stupid school boy goals everyweek.

Purkiss should not be played in front of Batt, we need attacking full backs. Purkiss is not. He was shocking against Southend. And his crosses have been no better than Batt's recently.

Melville needs to sort the set piece/crossing defending out.

[Lone Gunman]

Been saying this for a while now, we will not achieve anything if we keep leaking goals as we are at them moment. Not keeping a clean sheet for 20 matches is a joke and the only reason it has not cost us more is because we have been lucky and scored lots of goals.

Whether Worley is responsible or not I think the defence would benefit form a change. Sangare or Gaugan, the forgotten man as yet, or purkiss can all come in.

There have been arguments to suggest a settled defence is the answer but the defence must surely now have settled and they are still making elementary errors. If they had been unlucky to concede in games it would be a different matter, but the vast majority of goals we have let in have been due to mistakes of the simplest nature.

Whatever the case we can forget promotion until we sort this problem out.

[Agadoo]

i'd blame a lack of leadership and experience in the team plus getting rid of the no-nonsense Creighton, sounds like it was his sort of game....

[risdon]

Jan 23, 2011 16:35:30 GMT rollsy89 said:

Worley's man scored the first, so how was he not at fault?

Asa Hall was marking Holt. Watch it again.

['Beav']

I'm sorry but Clarke is definitely at fault for both 2 IMO. (Not saying others weren't also at fault as most of them were a group effort)

The flick on didn't even go over him! He just sort of fell to the side.

The cross he was beaten at HEAD HEIGHT by someone who got in front of him! Surely a keeper should be claiming those all day long.


Awful keeping tbh, he needs to sort his positioning and handling out!

[Lone Gunman]

Jan 23, 2011 22:23:57 GMT 'Beav' said:

I'm sorry but Clarke is definitely at fault for both 2 IMO. (Not saying others weren't also at fault as most of them were a group effort)

The flick on didn't even go over him! He just sort of fell to the side.

The cross he was beaten at HEAD HEIGHT by someone who got in front of him! Surely a keeper should be claiming those all day long.


Awful keeping tbh, he needs to sort his positioning and handling out!

Despite all that i'm still not sure I'd like to put eastwood in...

[Long Live Clarkey]

Jan 23, 2011 22:23:57 GMT 'Beav' said:

I'm sorry but Clarke is definitely at fault for both 2 IMO. (Not saying others weren't also at fault as most of them were a group effort)

The flick on didn't even go over him! He just sort of fell to the side.

The cross he was beaten at HEAD HEIGHT by someone who got in front of him! Surely a keeper should be claiming those all day long.


Awful keeping tbh, he needs to sort his positioning and handling out!

Just a thought, but nobody else has picked up on this so far. Are you maybe being overly critical? Particularly in that last attack, which seems very harsh considering his form this season!

I'll admit I'm quick to defend Clarke, him being one of my favourite players, but that first goal was in no way his fault. I can't see where you're getting that from at all. (watching the highlights now)

Now I don't see in terms of coming out how he could have got there before the striker. That's pretty much impossible, unless he's lightning quick (he's a goalkeeper, so that's impossible). However, you can question his decision making in coming out for it, but if he'd stayed on his line and the ball had gone in, we'd be saying it was a poor decision not to come out. Ambiguous second one, but the first is in no way shape or form his fault. That would have required a near world-class save.

['Beav']

Hahaha you're making it up as you go along LLC!


The first one he was in the wrong position from the corner. No wonder he couldn't make the save!


The second one he could have RAN FORWARD and claimed the cross where about Wright was stood (seeing as he's allowed to use his hands) But instead side stepped so he'd catch it at head height (standing) which made it easier for McKenzie to head it in.

Your favouritism has blinded you mate.



LG definitely wouldn't put Eastwood in despite this.

[Long Live Clarkey]

Jan 23, 2011 22:52:40 GMT 'Beav' said:

Hahaha you're making it up as you go along LLC!


The first one he was in the wrong position from the corner. No wonder he couldn't make the save!


The second one he could have RAN FORWARD and claimed the cross where about Wright was stood (seeing as he's allowed to use his hands) But instead side stepped so he'd catch it at head height (standing) which made it easier for McKenzie to head it in.

Your favouritism has blinded you mate.



LG definitely wouldn't put Eastwood in despite this.

Okay...

Well, where do you expect him to stand? In front of the player who heads it? He's not a mind reader, he doesn't know the ball's going to him before the corner's taken! I literally cannot see anything wrong with what he does there. No keeper goes right to the front post on a corner because there's a player there already. There was NOTHING wrong with his positioning there, he couldn't reach the shot (and fair play to him, not sure how he was supposed to). There's just nothing to criticise there.

The second goal, he could run and try and get it (looks like he does to me! but assuming he isn't or could travel faster), at the risk of actually either a) getting there too early and losing the header anyway or b) crashing into the striker and giving away the penalty/losing the ball or even c) losing sight of the ball (although that's unlikely). The problem is with the decision making there.

In what way am i making it up as I go along? If you mean I'm working out my argument while I watch the highlights (which is the only thing I can think of) then surely that's the best way to do it?

[windows]

We are poor at the back.Every set piece we seem to look like or concede, play five across the back, and get the ball up the pitch quicker instead of this slow build up,, we give the opposition so much time to chase back when we break, also we still have a problem scoring we make so many chances but miss to many.