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Post by scoob on Sept 10, 2010 12:41:19 GMT
How about trying to purchase the priory? Its a goldmine and if it belongs to OUFC for many years to come, it will provide decent income I've suggested this previously. It makes a stack on home games but is dead the rest of the week. If it was a more official supporters club would it be more busier in non peak times? On the few occassions that I went in the old supporters club other than match days/special events I do not remember it being very busy.
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Post by Lone Gunman on Sept 10, 2010 20:20:20 GMT
The other problem with the priory in the week is that its too far out of the way. Unless you live in BBL (and even then its a bit of a trek) you have to drive to get to it, and thus can't spend loads of cash buying drinks as you have to drive home again. Thus even if it were a supporters club I think it would still only be busy on matchdays.
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Post by oufc1975 on Sept 13, 2010 9:29:16 GMT
I can raise £750,000 between 3 people if that helps! No joke so if it gets off the ground I will be happy to help raise funds!
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Post by oufc1975 on Sept 13, 2010 9:30:06 GMT
I am one of the votes at £100,000 plus by the way so dont double count
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Post by Eric Read on Sept 14, 2010 9:26:40 GMT
I can raise £750,000 between 3 people if that helps! No joke so if it gets off the ground I will be happy to help raise funds! This post has been up for 24 hours now, and I can't believe nobody has responded to this generous offer. From reading oufc1975's previous input into the Ian Lenegan thread I believe this to be a genuine offer. Perhaps nobody reads this section of the board and the subject needs moving to the matches section to give it more exposure?
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Post by witneyellow on Sept 14, 2010 12:48:19 GMT
I can raise £750,000 between 3 people if that helps! No joke so if it gets off the ground I will be happy to help raise funds! Does Kelvin know about this? If you have friends with access to those sorts of sums that might seriously consider investing it in OUFC/the stadium, I am sure he would love to talk to you. I know there are a couple of other people with connections/ideas but the club needs to know who is out there as these sorts of sums could make a big dent in the £10-13m needed
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Post by dabigfella on Sept 16, 2010 19:20:56 GMT
Guys, what I was saying if the club did a share or bond issuance. For example if the stadium cost if 5 million and the club sells 50,000 shares and 100GBP each or 500,000 at 10GBP then would be upto us supporters if and how much we would want to invest. It could be quite a attractive and safe investment considering the low interest rate banks offer these days. Those wealthier supporters obviously could purchase more. HKY I doubt if enough fans/investors would be attracted by a share issue. These shares would be relatively high risk and no guarantee of any return from a company in a very high risk industry. I really can not see enough people investing on this basis.Maybe a bond/loan note issue at a fixed rate of interest secured against the asset of the land/stadium would be more attractive to potential investors/fans and would help reduce the financing cost of the purchase. For example £5M at say 2.5% would give an attractive rate of return at current rates but would probably save the owners 3% to 5% in interest costs compared to bank finance. This would reduce the annual finance cost of the stadium by £150k to £250k per annum. I am sure you have more up to date information re corporate lending rates and I guess that there may be a significant costs involved in any share/bond issue that will have to be factored in. Maybe a combination of shares and bonds would widen the potential base of investors. However, if rumours on otherb recent threads are true then maybe all of this will not be needed. Scoob you are probably right about the numbers, but you are forgetting the numbers of people (such as myself) who would willingly buy shares so they can feel that they own just a little bit of the club they support rather than looking for any profit.
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Post by scoob on Sept 17, 2010 0:23:51 GMT
HKY I doubt if enough fans/investors would be attracted by a share issue. These shares would be relatively high risk and no guarantee of any return from a company in a very high risk industry. I really can not see enough people investing on this basis.Maybe a bond/loan note issue at a fixed rate of interest secured against the asset of the land/stadium would be more attractive to potential investors/fans and would help reduce the financing cost of the purchase. For example £5M at say 2.5% would give an attractive rate of return at current rates but would probably save the owners 3% to 5% in interest costs compared to bank finance. This would reduce the annual finance cost of the stadium by £150k to £250k per annum. I am sure you have more up to date information re corporate lending rates and I guess that there may be a significant costs involved in any share/bond issue that will have to be factored in. Maybe a combination of shares and bonds would widen the potential base of investors. However, if rumours on otherb recent threads are true then maybe all of this will not be needed. Scoob you are probably right about the numbers, but you are forgetting the numbers of people (such as myself) who would willingly buy shares so they can feel that they own just a little bit of the club they support rather than looking for any profit. I have certainly not forgotten and agree that there could be a significant number of people like you but I would be very surprised if more than a couple of million could be raised via sale of shares to supporters with cash. I suggest that out of the 6,000 regulars less than 1,000 would be willing or able to put more than a couple of thousand in. I am certain that it would be possible for fans to take a share in the ground but I am not sure that the current or any future owners would be interested as that could affect their stake.
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Post by scoob on Sept 17, 2010 0:47:12 GMT
Just playing with the different ways fans could buy the stadium:
Assuming a cost of £10M for the stadium (this could be much higher).
The Stadco generated average cash of approximately £1/2M before interest, taxes and depreciation over the last two published accounting years. If £400k was used to finance interest only loans at 8% interest this would cover £5M of borrowing leaving £100k surplus. The club would have to continue paying rent/costs in order for this to work.
If 5M shares were issued at £1 each then if just 500 people invested an average £10,000 each that would give them each a 0.002% share in the stadium. This could be financed from cash or borrowing.
If someone has £10,000 cash then an investment of this amount would effectively cost them a couple of hundred pounds a year in lost interest (ie a minimal loss) but the risk to their capital would be massively increased compared to a bank/building society investment. There is also the risk that this could effectively cost them more in lost interest if interest rates rise.
If someone borrowed £10,000 on a variable mortage at say 3.5% over 10 years then the initial interest would cost about £350 a year. However the average interest cost over the whole term would be just £15 a month and they should end up with and investement that could be worth more or less than they have invested. There would be a risk to their capital as above and also an interest rate risk (ie if rates increase the investment would cost more). The monthly payments would be about £100 per month.
If someone borrowed £10,000 from Tesco, for example, on their 7.7% fixed rate personal loan the monthly repayment over 10 years would be £120. Interest would cost an average of £34.25 per month. The would still have the capital risk but no interest rate risk.
There are many other factors to consider including the fact that someone would need to be employed to head the company and make the day to day decisions regarding the running of the Stadco. This cost is currently borne by Kassam and would be borne by IL if he owned the Stadco.
There would also be a significant admin/legal/accounting cost in setting up the company/issuing shares.
There would also be costs of funding any future development so the shareholders may need to invest more at the outset to take account of this.
It is much more difficult for companies with large numbers of shareholders to take development risks than it is for a single owner like Kassam/IL to risk his "own" money.
The big question is whether there are 500 people willing or able to commit £10,000 (or 1000 at £5000 or 2000 at £2500 etc). Of course these are averages and some of OUFC1975 friends would have a large share. The actual cost to each individual is (ignoring the £10,000 capital as that should remain in the value of the Stadco) relatively small if enough people could be involved.
The value of the share issue need not be £5M. For example £3M could be shares and £2M in bonds which carry slightly lower risk but also lower potential reward.
There has also been suggestions that there are other parties interested in buying OUFC who could have the cash to take over both companies with no need for borrowing. As I undestand it WPL have first option to buy the ground at £13M but anyone could offer say £10M and if Kassam accepts and WPL can't raise the cash then it does not prevent other parties from buying the ground at any amount. Is this a correct understanding? Would WPL be so keen to retain OUFC with another owner of the stadium in place?
Any thoughts.............................................
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Post by Londonroader on Sept 17, 2010 7:13:24 GMT
Just playing with the different ways fans could buy the stadium: Assuming a cost of £10M for the stadium (this could be much higher). The Stadco generated average cash of approximately £1/2M before interest, taxes and depreciation over the last two published accounting years. If £400k was used to finance interest only loans at 8% interest this would cover £5M of borrowing leaving £100k surplus. The club would have to continue paying rent/costs in order for this to work. If 5M shares were issued at £1 each then if just 500 people invested an average £10,000 each that would give them each a 0.002% share in the stadium. This could be financed from cash or borrowing. If someone has £10,000 cash then an investment of this amount would effectively cost them a couple of hundred pounds a year in lost interest (ie a minimal loss) but the risk to their capital would be massively increased compared to a bank/building society investment. There is also the risk that this could effectively cost them more in lost interest if interest rates rise. If someone borrowed £10,000 on a variable mortage at say 3.5% over 10 years then the initial interest would cost about £350 a year. However the average interest cost over the whole term would be just £15 a month and they should end up with and investement that could be worth more or less than they have invested. There would be a risk to their capital as above and also an interest rate risk (ie if rates increase the investment would cost more). The monthly payments would be about £100 per month. If someone borrowed £10,000 from Tesco, for example, on their 7.7% fixed rate personal loan the monthly repayment over 10 years would be £120. Interest would cost an average of £34.25 per month. The would still have the capital risk but no interest rate risk. There are many other factors to consider including the fact that someone would need to be employed to head the company and make the day to day decisions regarding the running of the Stadco. This cost is currently borne by Kassam and would be borne by IL if he owned the Stadco. There would also be a significant admin/legal/accounting cost in setting up the company/issuing shares. There would also be costs of funding any future development so the shareholders may need to invest more at the outset to take account of this. It is much more difficult for companies with large numbers of shareholders to take development risks than it is for a single owner like Kassam/IL to risk his "own" money. The big question is whether there are 500 people willing or able to commit £10,000 (or 1000 at £5000 or 2000 at £2500 etc). Of course these are averages and some of OUFC1975 friends would have a large share. The actual cost to each individual is (ignoring the £10,000 capital as that should remain in the value of the Stadco) relatively small if enough people could be involved. The value of the share issue need not be £5M. For example £3M could be shares and £2M in bonds which carry slightly lower risk but also lower potential reward. There has also been suggestions that there are other parties interested in buying OUFC who could have the cash to take over both companies with no need for borrowing. As I undestand it WPL have first option to buy the ground at £13M but anyone could offer say £10M and if Kassam accepts and WPL can't raise the cash then it does not prevent other parties from buying the ground at any amount. Is this a correct understanding? Would WPL be so keen to retain OUFC with another owner of the stadium in place? Any thoughts............................................. Just let the person who can afford to purchase the stadium, but it.
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Post by boris on Sept 17, 2010 10:03:43 GMT
Just let the person who can afford to purchase the stadium, but it. Even if that person is a property developer or, worse, a rugby fanatic with no interest in OUFC? I think that it's important that whoever buys the stadium and the ancillary parts of the company is someone who has the best interests of OUFC at heart and, preferably, is someone who is a part of the OUFC management/ownership structure.
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Post by Brahma Bull on Sept 17, 2010 12:11:42 GMT
Even if that person is a property developer or, worse, a rugby fanatic with no interest in OUFC? I think that it's important that whoever buys the stadium and the ancillary parts of the company is someone who has the best interests of OUFC at heart and, preferably, is someone who is a part of the OUFC management/ownership structure.[/quote][/b] Clearly there are people interested in purchasing the football club and maybe that also extends to ownership of the stadium. If that person does exist, then I would hope that ours and any other Football Owner would consider such a sale; if it were for the benefit and in the interests of that football club.
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Post by slappy on Sept 17, 2010 13:23:29 GMT
I think if the club could get interest free investment for about half the stadium, the rest by mortgage would be affordable. Alternatively, the 40% partner as suggested at the forum.
However, getting people to invest with no return and a minority interest in the (club or) stadium will be very difficult.
OUFC1975 I thought was friends with the family who want to takeover, but on here he has friends who can raise £750K towards the stadium? Are these the same ones?
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Post by scoob on Sept 17, 2010 14:53:39 GMT
I think if the club could get interest free investment for about half the stadium, the rest by mortgage would be affordable. Alternatively, the 40% partner as suggested at the forum. However, getting people to invest with no return and a minority interest in the (club or) stadium will be very difficult. OUFC1975 I thought was friends with the family who want to takeover, but on here he has friends who can raise £750K towards the stadium? Are these the same ones? Good question Slappy. I meant to ask exactly that myself and will be interested to know the answer please OUFC1975. Slappy I do not recall IL mentioning a 40% partner at the Forum. He definitely said that there will not be any partnership with developers. I may have missed this bit but I do not have any mention of that in my comprehensive notes. What did he say about partnership?
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Post by slappy on Sept 17, 2010 15:19:08 GMT
There was a group structure shown as the shareholders of OU Property Others(40%) Oufc Holdings(60%)
and OU Holding was shown as 100% owner of OUFC.
(presumably OU Holdings being some sort of equivalent of WPL?, and OU Property = Stadco + development?)
(I'm not sure whether this was for an onward development of the 'environs' which they said needed another £5MM) ---- Also I think they said that 50% of the Stadco funding was close from institutions and individuals, but the remaining 50% was outstanding.
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Post by scoob on Sept 17, 2010 16:46:15 GMT
There was a group structure shown as the shareholders of OU Property Others(40%) Oufc Holdings(60%) and OU Holding was shown as 100% owner of OUFC. (presumably OU Holdings being some sort of equivalent of WPL?, and OU Property = Stadco + development?) (I'm not sure whether this was for an onward development of the 'environs' which they said needed another £5MM) ---- Also I think they said that 50% of the Stadco funding was close from institutions and individuals, but the remaining 50% was outstanding. Thanks slappy. I had noted that OU Holdings owned the two other companies (OUFC & OU Property) but I definitely missed the 60/40 split with outside interests.
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Post by oufc1986 on Oct 1, 2010 13:26:51 GMT
Perhaps it's not such a bad idea, if for example a fans trust could raise enough money for the 4th stand in the event of WPL buying the stadium.If the the trust could raise several hundred thousand pounds a year this could be acheivable as the stadium purchase will carry on for several years i'm sure. In the new stand a supporters club could be built which could generate income year round, weddings and functions etc. We should remember fans/supporters club raised money for the Beech Road stand many years ago so a smaller scale stadium assistance scheme is possible.
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Post by scoob on Oct 1, 2010 15:08:26 GMT
Perhaps it's not such a bad idea, if for example a fans trust could raise enough money for the 4th stand in the event of WPL buying the stadium.If the the trust could raise several hundred thousand pounds a year this could be acheivable as the stadium purchase will carry on for several years i'm sure. In the new stand a supporters club could be built which could generate income year round, weddings and functions etc. We should remember fans/supporters club raised money for the Beech Road stand many years ago so a smaller scale stadium assistance scheme is possible. A similar thought had crossed my mind. I remember visiting the old supporters club many times about 20 years ago. Occassionally with a few mates when we were passing and when I worked a couple of hundred metres from the ground for a couple of years. Apart from match days I can not remember it being very busy so wonder if it was very profitable. The portacabins can't have cost much but a new building incorporated into the ground would have a huge cost so I wonder if this is a realistic idea especially considering that there are many potential competitors, including the Priory, very close to the ground. It may be more cost effective to convert an existing part of the ground such as some of the ground level of the South Stand (eg the bar area behind the curved glass area).
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Post by oufc1986 on Oct 1, 2010 20:47:26 GMT
supporters club was very popular with families, the catchment area is huge now. Where else could you take your family for a sociable evening out with out breaking the bank, Bullnose/Blackbird?Also we must remember every watering hole around the stadium is not financing the club but Kassam and local brewerys.Still it's only a pipe dream but would be good for supporters to help the club in the event of a buyout ,
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